Reply traffic sounds encrypted in Buffalo....

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tdave365

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One of the Buffalo Police channels I monitor is 460.425, P25 analog, part of an LTR Standard trunking system. It's identical in programming parameters to all the other channels for Buffalo Police which I generally receive fine.

One mystery though: On this particular channel alone *sometimes* a reply to voice traffic comes back in what sound like digital encryption. So, Voice "A" says something like "I just pulled over the Wiener Mobile, is anyone hungry?", and Voice "B" will answer "garbly garbly twisted like an audible train wreck garbly garbly'.

Since the beginning of my foray into Buffalo police scanning I just took this as the default nature of the channel. Perhaps the digitally encrypted replies were from detectives who's traffic was encrypted (not that there is any indication of this in the Radio Reference DB or listing -- the channel is just a metro patrol channel like any of the others, but I figured it a rational explanation even so).

I was content enough since it didn't represent a big problem...until yesterday. Yesterday I humored myself with a visit to Broadcastify and discovered that someone was streaming the Buffalo police. For kicks and comparison, even though I have my own police scanner sitting right next to me doing the same exact thing, I decided to listen to the stream.

Suddenly there was communication from the channel under discussion over the actual police scanner. Voice "A" said something and Voice "B" came back all garbled. And, to my shock, the *same* communication followed in the stream (with a few seconds delay) EXCEPT that Voice "B" came back perfectly clear! I was dumbfounded. This meant that I've been putting up with a mis-configuration or a defect or *something* all this time.

I just don't understand *how*.

As I wrote it's a P25 analog broadcast over an LTR standard trunked system. There are at least 4 other channels that don't behave this way. I have the channel programmed in exactly like the others. So the only conclusion that comes to mind is that there is something amiss with the scanner itself ... which is a PRO-6502, a Radio-Shack branded Whistler.

But that conclusion seems a bit unlikely so I'd be interested if anyone has any thoughts on this anomaly.
 

nyair1

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I have heard werid things on their channels before. Sometimes the garbled comms are because there are multiple officers there and it cause a garbled feedback. I have heard radio tell them that before.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

ak716

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A little confused here, Buffalo PD is P25 conventional, and the only encryption I’ve ever came across (while monitoring buffalo) is on the dectectives channel which has strapped encryption, I think ADP off the top of my head. The only thing I can think of where it would happen is every now an then, using my SDR, if I have a weak signal due to using a different antenna, while monitoring ECSO partway thru DSD says it’s encrypyed but my physical scanner is still decoding it fine, which makes me think something is interfering with it or the signal just degrades cuse of the weak signal. To the best of my knowledge, and from what I’ve seen monitoring is Buffalo is not on a LTR TRS at all, and their fleet of radio, XTS1500’s don’t support that.
 

ak716

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Correct, BPD runs P25 conventional, simulcast in analog at a reduced power, and simulcast onto a Connect Plus system
 

tdave365

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If its P25 its neither analog nor LTR trunked.

I defer that you and Andy are correct, I'm still too loose on the crucial terminology I'm afraid. I appreciate the clarification!

True, as a P25 it is not analog, I really meant it was conventional -- or -- at least not encrypted.

But the issue does still stand as odd. Maybe more so in light of the correction.
 

tdave365

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I will try to post an audible sample to shed light on the discussion if I can.

As an aside, right this second, they seem to be having a chronic issue with an open mic with this specific channel.
 

ak716

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I'm thinking the issue you may be having is more so the signal coming in, or quality coming in, depending on your location, location in your house (if using it in there) and your antenna, just my thoughts. All my issues I have had receiving around here is all related to my signal or location. On a handheld, its usually I put it too close to my computer and I usually see my RSSI bars drop when getting a signal, move it away, quality goes up (self explanatory), or me using certain antennas (switch antenna or change angle/lenght if telescopic) and Shazam!

I have a physical scanner and a RTL-SDR that I mainly use, and the only issue I normally have are when Im using my RTL-SDR, and its gain, volume or antenna that cause the issue. If I have the volume up too hi or gain up too hi in SDR, DSD doesn't decode it properly and it it will for some frames, say encrypted, which it clearly is not. Change the settings to what it should be and it works. (I know...I should be using FMP with a TCP.....but I don't...I still don't like using it and find SDR# way easier)

Depending on your scanner, if you can monitor Connect Plus trunking.... try programming in the SaiaNet BPD talkgroups. I get their signals better at times, depending on what antenna I have plugged into the scanner, than their P25 conventional channel. Same channel, just different flavor of digital, same great audio quality
 

tdave365

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Depending on your scanner, if you can monitor Connect Plus trunking.... try programming in the SaiaNet BPD talkgroups. I get their signals better at times, depending on what antenna I have plugged into the scanner, than their P25 conventional channel. Same channel, just different flavor of digital, same great audio quality

Dang, this really piqued my interest because in checking RR it looks like there is a parallel monitoring universe to the P25 on SaiaNet. I'd be curious to hear the difference if any but alas, the PRO-652 isn't capable of monitoring this system.

Heh-heh, I thought when I bought a scanner with an LCD display I'd never run into compatibility issues with radio systems again (I'm joking ;) ). I wonder what the monster of scanners is today that gets "it all" if I were willing to spend the money.
 
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