Report released on Contra Cost firefighter's deaths

[Grog]

af5rn

You have irritated more than clanusb.

Don't feel bad, there are many of us who just ignore him.

 

[af5rn]

Don't feel bad, there are many of us who just ignore him.

Translation: "I am unable to intelligently dispute anything he has said, so I'm going to take a cheap, parting shot and run away."

Ignorance is the cowards way out.

At least Exsmokey has the courage to confront the issue.

 

[wskrayen]

af5rn,

Do you or have you ever lived or worked in CoCo county? Have you ever served in the department? Or met any of the fire fighters involved? If not then I submit your views are irrelevant in this discussion, as you do not have any knowledge of the department or their procedures, nor are you or have you been a "customer" of the department. I had the honor of meeting Scott, while I was working in CoCo county, as well as other firefighters and officers of the department.

You are attempting to use the loss of two firefighters to further a position that has no bearing on this incident. The fact that E73 was a medical call had no bearing on the outcome. Both engines were on scene before any one entered the structure. What had a bearing was poor communications, by the alarm company, dispatch and the responding units. C3I (Command,Control, Communications and Intelligance) is and has been a problem in the department.

Please if you want to rant about EMS and Fire take to a more appropiate fourm.

 

[Grog]

Translation: "I am unable to intelligently dispute anything he has said, so I'm going to take a cheap, parting shot and run away."

Ignorance is the cowards way out.

At least Exsmokey has the courage to confront the issue.

You must be a complete idiot to call someone you have never met a coward. Do us a favor and jump off a bridge.

 

[clanusb]

You must be a complete idiot to call someone you have never met a coward. Do us a favor and jump off a bridge.

i personally would like to see an admin ban is IP range, so he can no longer be a problem to these forums.

 

[af5rn]

You must be a complete idiot to call someone you have never met a coward. Do us a favor and jump off a bridge.

Of course, we all knew you were lying when you said you were ignoring me.

i personally would like to see an admin ban is IP range, so he can no longer be a problem to these forums.

And, of course, we all knew you were lying when you said you were done with this thread, three posts ago.

Nice way to establish credibility, guys.

Again with the cowardice. What's the matter, guys? Unable to compete in intelligent debate? Ban the competition so you can ignore and deny your inadequacies? Very mature. If you disagree with my observations -- acquired through thirty-five years in the fire, EMS, and emergency services -- let's hear some intelligent rebuttal. Personal accusations and talk of the Dallas Cowboys doesn't exactly show any credibility on the subject at hand. I've been wrong before, plenty of times. And I'll be wrong again in this lifetime. But if you're going to prove it, you're going to have to do a lot better than all this childish name-calling and tantrum-throwing.

Let us not forget that I obviously never intended to stimulate any debate here. I simply made an observation about the original article, as did others. Then other pot-stirrers came along to make an issue of it, which I feel no obligation to back away from. I have full faith in the moderation staff's ability to clearly see who jumped into this discussion with the intention of jousting, and who was simply discussing the original post.

Wskrayen, I respect and appreciate your first-hand perspective, and thank you for that. No, I have never spent any professional time in Contra Costa. And I accept that there may well be local factors that might affect the validity of my opinions. But, from only what I know from this report, it seems quite clear that assigning fire personnel to non-fire duties results in a division of labour that jeopardises the safety of all involved, including our brothers and ourselves. While I will reiterate that I in no way assert this was a major factor in this tragic incident, simple math and logic dictate that any full review of contributory factors should take it into at least tertiary consideration. The fact that it was never even considered at all, in any respect, is a disappointing indication that the investigative review was incomplete. And I strongly believe that the sacrifices of Scott Desmond and Matt Burton deserve nothing less than full consideration.

If we continue to always do what we've always done, in the name of budgets and tradition, we will continue to get the results that we have always gotten. I don't know about you guys, but I've already been to way too many brothers' funerals in my career. I'd like to start seeing some different results.

 

[Eng74]

Show me a Firefighter or someone in EMS that will not debate something they will not be around too long. If someone takes something here personal they shouldn't.

Correct. And I apologise for not being clear. It was not left out of the narrative. It was, however, left out of the conclusion of contributing factors to be considered for future mitigation.

If you want to go with things like that lets go with the age of the engines, did they have Class A foam, did they use the Class A foam. They could also be contributing factors that were left out. That is "what if" again.

Absolutely agreed! There are some shining examples out there of success, indeed. However, in Kalifornia, that is unfortunately quite rare. It's simply the culture from which fire-based EMS grew. Instead of a medical profession, EMS is seen by the fire service as nothing more than a first aid service to perform if you don't have anything better to do. Instead of a professional medical education, a 13-week cram school -- which really amounts to little more than advanced first aid -- is the norm, is encouraged, and is chosen by most applicants, even when more comprehensive educational options are available.

They only one that is not a success that I know of is San Francisco. They just got the medics within the last 8 or 9 years from the Dept. of Public Health. They are making progress but it will take them time after all the are an east coast department on the west coast. Can you name some names of the ones that are not a success and why they are not? It is not as for which school someone gets the cert. from but how did they do when they went to get their cert. from the county? That will not be much of a factor now that the state is going national now.

And again, thank you for illustrating my point. Had proper funding been put forth into the provision of professional EMS (instead of being wasted on advanced first responders), then ambulances would have been five minutes closer to your father in the first place. It's simple. The money wasted on fire EMS services would be more than enough to provide enough ambulances to negate the need for fire first response in the first place. And if being a medical professional were the primary goal of those responding, instead of just a hoop to jump through to get a fire job, those tending to your father and other citizens would be better educated and prepared to deal with them.

No the Ambulace providers are done by private not Fire. Another fact is the local hospitals ER but that is a whole other deal that I will not get into here.

Again, we completely agree. And that is my point. If the fire service were not so consumed with trying to do EMS and fire too, they could better allocate their resources to safely cover their primary responsibility, which is fire suppression. Instead, we get fire chiefs robbing Peter to pay Paul. Shorting fire crews to run EMS. Shorting EMS to fight fire. Consequently, nobody wins, and our brothers lose their lives.

There are few Fire Departments in California that staff all their engines with 4. Even ones that do not run medic engines the staffing is 3. I think the Fire service is not to consumed trying to do Fire and EMS. Shorting fire crews has been going on long before EMS. Fire Chiefs robbing Peter to pay Paul would still go on. They still have to go to a BOS or a city council for a budget. If it was only like the commercial if the Firefighters ran everything we wouldn't have these problems. I can not agree that the system as a whole is wrong and should not be the way it is. Every once in a while we all need that slap in the face to remind us that the job is dangerous be it on a wildland or house fire. I think everyone would only like to take out the Class A for promotions and the once in a blue moon inspection and that is it. Bad days happen even when things are done right. Bad days happen when things are not. Lets just hope there are more good days than there are bad days.

 

[SCPD]

af5rn,

You don't seem to be able to have a rational discussion without insulting people, and that is why people don't want to continue this thread. There is a way to keep a topic on issues, but you move it into a more personal arena. My non-relevant discussion of Texas was an attempt to offer you an olive branch as I saw the N. Texas entry in your personal information. I thought it might lighten up the mood some, but it did not work. I think you like to find people's buttons and push them, without any regard to the actual issues.

As for the discussion of your avatar, I stand by what I said. I don't care what nationality or religion a person is, I found it offensive. I think most people would also find it offensive and I think the presidential campaign has shown that the mood of the country is away from the personal, dirty tricks type of discourse that we have seen for almost three decades. I'm glad that you saw fit to remove it, or a moderator removed it.

I would look forward to having a discussion on almost any subject with you if you were not so insulting. Just some food for thought.

 

[scannerboy02]

SAN PABLO, Calif. (AP) - The widow of a firefighter who was one
of four people killed in a San Pablo housefire is suing the
companies that provided security services for the home.
In a wrongful death suit filed Tuesday, Carolyn Desmond claims
Pinnacle Security of Utah and its subcontractor, Security
Associates International of Illinois, are to blame in the death of
her husband, Scott.
Thirty-seven-year-old Scott Desmond and 34-year-old Matt Burton
died of smoke inhalation and burns after responding to the July 21
fire.
In her suit, Carolyn Desmond claims Security Associates was
negligent because an employee called the Contra Costa County Fire
Protection District to report the fire on a non-emergency line.
The suit claims calling on the line, as well as the phrasing
used by the employee, resulted in a dispatcher making it a
lower-priority call.
Two residents of the home were also killed in the fire.