Requesting HELP for Downtown Seattle Fed Mystery

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devicelab

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If anyone that works (or lives) in the downtown Seattle area then please help me figure out who is on 410.9 Mhz. The problem is that you'll need some old fashioned DF'ing to help with this one since it's DMR and encrypted with RAS.

It seemed to start in April 2021. It was very quiet after the 'Delta' COVID surge when things went back to lockdown. Radio traffic picked up late 2021 and now I'm routinely getting about 30 hits per day on average. They've also been adding new radios to the mix over the last few months as you can see from the list below. The 4-digit RIDs started in late summer, IIRC.

I've gleamed a lot of data on this user but there's only so much good that will do in terms of tracking down the owner/operator. I think it's coming from either downtown or North Seattle.

I should also point out that the [encrypted] conversations are very terse and short. Feels very security-centric. Recordings rarely go beyond 10 seconds.

It's NOT the VA Hospital in Seattle.
It's NOT coming from Canada.
I don't think it's from SEATAC Airport.

Here the relevant radio information:

410.9000 (DMR, CC:13, SLOT 1) BASIC PRIVACY! RAS!

----------------
UNIQUE RIDs:
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133
136
173
256
306
312
403
493
529
535
582
650 (NEW - 11/17/2021)
672 (NEW - 12/5/2021)
673
683
713
778
782
804
921
1026
8033
8061
8066
8067 (NEW - 1/5/2021)
8089
8191
8198
8303
 
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n3obl

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Is the signal encrypted? RAS is not encryption. Its an authentication system for motorola radios and repeaters.
 

devicelab

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Courthouse would probably be USMS or FPS P25, what about USPS they use DMR in that range

Yes exactly. Already have frequencies for USMS and FPS so that would seem weird (and unlikely) they would have a 'unique' DMR frequency.

USPS is a theoretically possible; however, none of the currently known (Seattle-area) USPS frequencies are encrypted and the communications are much longer in length. Also, during the extreme COVID cycles, it was virtually dead. (You'd think it'd be a lot more active or consistent.)
 

AM909

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NTIA shows what looks like a USDA duplex 10-watt link with 12dB yagis between Starvation Mtn. (410.9 TX) and Mission Ridge (419.9 TX), 125 mi and 90 mi northeast and southeast of Seattle, both about 6800 ft elevation. Modulation is 8K10F1E, which the wiki says is P25 Phase I C4FM voice. Given the distance, low power, and directionality of the antennas, though, I doubt this is it.
 

GlobalNorth

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Courthouse would probably be USMS or FPS P25, what about USPS they use DMR in that range

I would bet that it is Federal Court ops, but not USMS. The USMS contracts out physical security to five different contractors nationwide to stand at entrances/exits, run the X-ray and CAT screening devices, and do other non-enforcement security work at the Courts. Security would not be using P25 due to the unit costing of an APX radio, unless it was very well funded and most security contractors are mostly deterrence and appearance.


FPS is responsible for GSA buildings, not all Federal facilities. Federal Courthouses fall under the Federal Judiciary and not the Executive branch. Rule them out at a Fed Courthouse.

Encrypted DMR freqs would make sense for a Federal contractor working in the Courts, since they would likely have more personnel there than the USMS would.
 

DeeEx

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Re: GlobalNorth’s post— that’s precisely what I’m getting at. Speaking from firsthand experience in another state.
 

devicelab

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Basic Privacy is easy to crack. I have a Russian receiver that can find the key. I’m not telling you to find the key. But if you just happen to land on the right one.

Been there, done that; however, you need to read up on how RAS works. Without the RAS key, I cannot discover the BP key. I am using a Mot product though.
 

Wilrobnson

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I would bet that it is Federal Court ops, but not USMS. The USMS contracts out physical security to five different contractors nationwide to stand at entrances/exits, run the X-ray and CAT screening devices, and do other non-enforcement security work at the Courts. Security would not be using P25 due to the unit costing of an APX radio, unless it was very well funded and most security contractors are mostly deterrence and appearance.

As a recent escapee from Seattle, I guarantee it's not the Fed Courts/USMS contractors. I also kind of used to, you know, work for them.

FWIW, I've never seen a federal courthouse that WASN'T P25, and 99% of the time, running full AES. The contracted security force (contractually required to be either active duty or honorably retired law enforcement) uses USMS freqs on USMS-provided radios. They also have full SDUSM arrest authority while on duty.

Based on my own observations, I still think this freq is emanating from either the VA on Beacon Hill or somewhere close to DeviceLab, aka the Eastside. Hundreds of hours/days in and around Downtown Seattle and I never received it there once. Only a single recording when I was driving NB Interstate 5 near Boeing Field, and another single recording from the Ballard area.
 

Wilrobnson

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Possibly NOAA Sand Point maintenance and engineering? That's too many RIDs for their 2-3 at a time contract security force.
 
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