Resources and Specific Questions

[doublehelix]

Hi guys,

I'm about as newbish as newbies come at this, but I have a keen interest and have learned a lot (relatively) in my few days dabbling with my newly minted scanner. I have searched and read a lot about all of the things available; however, I feel that I either lack the vocabulary to find better help, or that most of what is written assumes the reader (in this case, me) knows more than he does.

I'd really like some resources (not that I need people to Google things for me, but like I said, I feel I don't have the vocabulary to actually find what I'm looking for) that would answer questions like:

1) I'm interested in listening to shortwave, pirate radio, ham on HF, etc. Take the ham bands, for example. How would I find the frequencies that these operate on? Is it more of a "hunt and peck" method whereby I search every frequency from .5mhz to 30mhz? I have found frequencies for the BBC, Radio Canada, etc. (as examples), and others like it, but what about individuals or pirate stations on the shortwave band?

2) I tried to pick up the International Space Station on 145.8 Mhz. Everything I read says that I should be able to do this when it is overhead (obviously) with my stock antenna. I haven't heard anything -- maybe this is normal as I've only tried twice -- but take for example 145.8 Mhz. Is it FM? I know that's probably one of the stupidest questions asked on this forum, but is there a tell whereby I'm just supposed to know? After all, aircraft band is right next door and I'm explicitly told it's AM.

I have questions that pop up like this because I really am starting with no knowledge whatsoever.

 

[mancow]

Pirates do stick around certain freqs. like the upper 6 Mhz area (6.9 to 7.0 Mhz). However, the fact that they're pirates means they do whatever they want so who knows. They tend to be low powered and noisy so it's often difficult to catch them.

I put 145.800 in the scanner and just left it there. I hear ham radio digital packet on there right now about once or twice a day. When they turn on the voice radios you can easily pick them up. A decent antenna is needed to make it a reliable venture.

Yes, 145.800 is used with FM modulation by the ISS. The aircraft band uses AM due to a thing called the capture effect of FM. Basically, FM modulated signals will fight and override each other causing only the strongest to be heard. With AM it's possible to hear other voices in the back ground and it reduces the problem of several signals all mixing together to form an unintelligible mess.

 

[KC8JPZ]

I cant really help you much on the pirate radio thing. But if you are looking for specifics on the ham bands and the frequencies used for different types of transmission. You can use what is known as a bandplan. It will tell you the blocks of frequencies that are designated for phone, cw, packet, sstv etc.

Here is the ARRL version of the band plan
http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/bandplan.html

If your interested in ISS . The program I use for tracking ISS and other sats is called Orbitron. It is a free program that can help you allot with finding the signals. It will give you azimuth and elevation of the station in real time. It will also list the frequencies and transmission mode for each. A helix antenna would also be ideal for reception of space oriented transmissions do to its true circular polarity. You can get away with others but you can expect more with a cp antenna.

Orbitron can be found here.
http://www.stoff.pl/

Do not feel you are asking stupid questions. We are here to help each other and hopefully steer people in the right direction.
Hope this helps you.

 

[KC4ZEX]

We need a little more info on what type scanner you have to help much. As most standard scanners don't cover shortwave or freq's below about 29 mhz. For AM aircraft you will hear a lot of traffic between about 118 and 136 mhz. The 145.800 freq is in the 2 meter ham band you will hear a lot of ham traffic and repeaters between 145.000 and 147.550 all FM. also lots of ham traffic on 440. to 449. all FM. Depending on your location you may hear 6 meter FM traffic between 52 and 54 mhz. If you have one of the all band scanners like the Yaesu VR500 or Icom R10 or R20 or a few others you can get shortwave their are lots of lists available for aircraft, military, shortwave broadcasts and ham bands. I will be glad to help you any way I can.

 

[nexus]

The International Space Station isn't operating all of the time. They only operate when time/duties permit. What you want to do is track ECHO-51 (AO-51) which is an OSCAR (Orbiting Satellite Carring Amateur Radio) on 435.3000 mHz FM. That is the downlink freq from the satellite to earth stations. Earth stations transmit on 145.8800 and 145.9200 mHz FM. But you'll want to set your scanner on 435.3000 FM. You should be able to hear stations communicating through AO-51 with your stock antenna. I've done it several times.

All you'll need to do is track it to your location and be outside during the duration that it will be within your range. You can get more info on tracking and listening to amateur satellites here: http://www.amsat.org/ (as I mentioned, ISS only will operate their station from time to time. but if you tune in for ECHO you'll hear constant comms as long as the sat is in range of you).

Other people already gave you a link to the US Amateur bandplan... I'll elaborate on this a little bit. During the daytime hours focus your monitoring on 7mhz and above. Usually 7.0 to 7.3 mHz LSB is going to be active both day and night, you'll also hear a lot of activity on 14.1 to 14.5 mHz USB. These are mostly daytime frequencies. At night you'll want to drop down to 3.750 to 4.0 mHz LSB. These freqs. are very active at night. The reason for this is Earth's D-layer atmosphere absorbs lower freqs during the day, and at night it allows them to be reflected back to earth (this is called SKIP). Higher freqs in the HF band are not effected by the D-Layer so thats why they're usable during the day. The middle area is the 7-8mhz bands.

As for Pirates, those are as you call it "hunt and peck." Pirate stations do not stay on one specific freq for a long period of time, lest they be caught. So you generally need to scan the bands and just learn how to pick up on them being pirate. A good source of information which may help you get in the general area to find them is here: http://www.blackcatsystems.com/pirate/logs/listLogs.html

That link is a log of known and identified pirates, including date/time/freq/mode/location (QTH). The freq is in khz steps so if you see a freq that says "21859" its going to be 21.859.0 mHz (21859.0 kHz) USB usually. Looking at that log I see a LOT for 6950 which is 6.950.0 mHz USB probably. That list will help you find some of these pirates fairly quickly.

back on the ISS question. Were you trying to just pick up their official comms with NASA ground control? Because the freq you listed 145.8 mhz is a HAM freq usually used for satellite comms, and it is in FM mode. But the official NASA comms is done on microwave freqs. like 1500mhz and 2000mhz. You're not going to be intercepting those. The Aircraft (aero) band ends at 136mhz and it is in AM only.

 

[doublehelix]

I really appreciate the responses and the willingness to help. You guys specifically answered all of my questions and the resources are helpful, too. Let me elaborate on the questions you asked me back:

First of all, I have an Icom R-20 with the stock antenna (I can pick up many SW stations, especially at night). I know the first thing people do is replace the stock on any receiver they own, but I feel a little overwhelmed with trying to get the few antennas I need right now. I saw that the 20-006 antenna from RS got decent reviews at different sites, so I picked one up; however, I thought it performed poor compared to the stock.

Regarding the ISS,

I went to heavens-above.com and got the times, synced with my clock, when the ISS would passover, but still received nothing but static on 145.8 Mhz. Unlike mancow, I did not hear any "radio packets." I suppose that the stock antenna could be the culprit for this, but based on what mancow said, though, I would expect that I should have heard something with my stock antenna. I've only tried twice and will try again when the ISS reaches a higher altitude. Perhaps KC8JCZ can tell me if an elevation of only 15 degrees was too shallow.

As for pirate radio,

It just sounds interesting to me and I'd like to hear it. The resources given, and the explanation of how and why they "hop" frequencies, was exactly what I was looking for.

Also, regarding radio amateur satellites,

Nexus mentioned AO-51. I have tried to pick this satellite up as well, using the list found at heavens-above.com, also to no avail. In fact, last night I was out on 435.300 Mhz during the time AO-51 was over. Perhaps the stock antenna is poor for this range. Can you suggest a good antenna for handhelds that will perform well with radio amateur satellites?

As for lists of frequencies,

I don't live around a big airport or a military base, which is one reason I am focusing more on shortwave. I would like to listen to aircraft on SW, as I've read transoceanic flights operate here, as well as military (11.175 is apparently a frequency, although I haven't heard anything yet).

And how about something new,

I rigged my cars radio to take the input from the R-20 so I can listen over my car's speakers; however, the low frequencies (30-50 Mhz) are getting interference when the audio cable is connected. I assume this is the spark plugs firing, but I'm not electronics genius. Any ideas about fixing this with maybe some type of shielded cable or am I best off getting rid of that range?

As you can see, I am quite the newbie, but I'm trying to figure it out. Thanks again for your help, as I believe as soon as I get that base knowledge I can stop pestering you experts with freshman-level questions.

 

[n4voxgill]

What is your location? You might also try listening to the Coast Guard air frequencies on 8983 kHz and 5696 kHz. Atlantic and Gulf Coast aircraft are worked by CAMSLANT near Norfolk, Va and the Pacific is controlled by CAMSPAC out in Calif. The higher frequency is the primary day freq and 5 megs in night time primary. From my location in South Texas I pick up CAMSLANT most of the time and CAMSPAC on days with good propagation. I am using a 24 foot tall HF antenna to pick them up. Most of the time I can hear the planes and helicopters as well as the base station. A good antenna is the key working HF.

 

[nexus]

Regarding the ISS once again...

I don't know if you overlooked my comment on it or what but like I said You're not going to be hearing constant operations on 145.8000 mhz all of the time. They operate special events, and DUTY PERMITTING. Please read this primer on operating with the ISS. http://www.rac.ca/ariss/faqariss.htm

You have the correct down-link freq. its 145.8000 and the earth-stations transmit on 145.2000 mHz. All of this is FM. And a stock rubber-duckie antenna should be all that you need in order to hear. Now transmitting stations will want to use a yagi beam antenna, but a rubber-duck or a stock telescoping antenna should be more than sufficient.

*NOTE*
For best results Keep the antenna in a 30-45 degree angle to the earth's surface. This will increase your reception of the satellite/ISS signals. If you hold the antenna completely vertical it will not capture as much of the RF as it would with the antenna tilted slightly.

Regarding the A0-51 (ECHO):
You need to check the OPERATIONAL STATUS of it at http://www.amsat.org/ and be sure that it is turned on. During certain times of the day the satellite will be powered down to allow the batteries to recharge. So first make sure the bird is ON. That info is on the site at the SAT STATUS link at the top. Then at the same location you can enter the PASSES link and enter in your location, it will tell you when the bird will pass over your area.

If you need your GRID SQUARE so you can use the correct LONG/LAT let me know what your city's zipcode is and I'll get you the correct grid square. Then you can enter in the grid square for the correct LONG/LAT. Then it will give you a list of the next 10 passes over your location. Also keep in mind you'll need to adjust the time as its in UTC (universal Time Cordinate). I've listened to stations talking on AO-51 several times with just a handheld and it's stock rubber duck antenna. So I'm pretty sure either you had the times off, or the bird was turned off at the time of passing by.

One other thing about the AO-51 and the freq. With the bird flying at 17,000 mph toward and then away from you there is a DOPPLER SHIFT. So before the bird is directly over head of you, you'll want to tune ABOVE about 5 or 10 khz of 435.3000 (so start out on 435.3500) as the bird passes directly above you tune down to center freq of 435.3000. And as the bird continues past you tune down 5 or 10 khz of center. So it'll be on 435.2950 and .2900...

The only GOOD ANTENNA for a handheld that I can suggest for Sat/ISS/Shuttle work is the "ARROW" http://www.arrowantennas.com/146-437.html This one is specifically designed for portable SAT operation. They have several other products so be sure and check out the entire site. But like I said you CAN hear them with the stock antenna. Something just wasn't right the time you tried (sat offline, your times off, or something).

Car Audio:
Does it sound like a whine? When you accelerate does the pitch change? It could be a GROUNDING issue. Usually noise getting into the speakers from the car is a grounding issue. Something isn't grounded good. It might be easier to just go buy an external speaker from radio shack for the Icom.

HF Antenna:
Radio shack sells a SWL wire dipole, if you're going to be listening from a stationary location, one of these would be a good idea from operating at home. You'll need a yard or something (not suitable for apartments in other words) because you'll be stringing a wire up between two trees or structures and running feedline (coax) into the dwelling to where the radio will be used. These antennas called Wire Dipoles (DIE.POLE) are excellent antennas for HF frequencies. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104088&cp=2032052.2032075.2032078.2032098&pg=3&parentPage=family

That is a link to the antenna...

If you're looking for something while on the road, Radio shack sells a portable wire antenna which reels up in its own plastic contrainer. What it does is snaps onto your exsisting telescoping stock antenna, and it creates a single wire dipole about 35 feet long. Its about the size of a pager its a small plastic container which is basically a spool of wire with a crank. Pull the wire out and tie it off to a tree limb or anything really, and attach the end to the antenna and it will increase your reception. I have one of these for my Yupiteru MVT-7100 which is a portable wideband all mode radio like your R-20. It comes with a telescoping antenna like yours. But it doesn't pull in HF very good. I usually string this thing up across a room, or if Im outside I'll pull the wire out and attach it to a tree and pull the wire out and snap it on my telescoping antenna and it pulls in the signals...

I can't find it in the catalog but my local RS has them. so it might be discontinued. Just check its a portable wire antenna for scanners and it snaps directly onto your telescoping antenna. and it has a reel to reel the wire back into it's plastic container.

 

[doublehelix]

Resources

Nexus,

Thank you for the reply. You cleared up many of the outstanding questions I had.

No, I did not overlook your reply about the ISS not transmitting all of the time. Obviously, they aren't up there talking away 24 hours a day. (They have more important things to do, like trying to keep it from falling apart.

I did think I would hear ham packets or some sort of automated system, but obviously not. No big deal. I just appreciate the primer.

My car audio does not sound like a whine, so I guess it's not spark plugs. I will look into grounding.

Thanks also for the antenna recommendations. I will assume my stock antenna will pick up the ISS when transmitting. I will look into the Arrow, but I'm glad to know something was wrong when I was listening. Also, I will look into the dipole antenna.

Thanks for your patience and help with the resources. I hate to be so stupid about this stuff, and I usually can easily find resources, but my vocabulary is lacking on this topic.

One question I had that wasn't really answered was the 145.8 Mhz transmission for ISS. How do you know this is FM? I mean, I know it is because of the replies here, but for future frequencies, how do you KNOW that a frequency isn't, say, USB, etc.?

At least this reply ends on an easy one.

Brandon

 

[kb2vxa]

Hi Double and all,

Most of your questions have been answered but I'll cut this to the bone to make it easier. If you want info on HF monitoring check out the Wiki and the HF forum, just read before posting because your questions have been asked over and over already.

Pirates can pop up anywhere, AM, FM and SW, but there they gravitate to broadcasting bands where people are listening for programming or near the ham bands because they're rogue hams or ham wannabies using thier ham equipment. Very few broadcast these days because the authorities have been clobbering them, mostly the rogues just quip back and forth sporadically to each other. I don't understand why they don't buckle down and get licensed and join us on the air legally.

Amateur satellites use transponders so most don't transmit FM, it's very wasteful of precious little power and kills the batteries that take forever to recharge. ISS on the other hand is a powerhouse transmitting on HF, VHF and UHF all modes but mostly FM voice. When they're not operating the packet mail box and repeater are on, that "bee-raaaaaap" noise is usually retransmissions of Earth stations' beacons. Yeah, everybody wants his callsign up in lights, you'll need a terminal node controller or sound card software to decode it. Run a search for "packet" and you'll get all the info you need including software.

Aside from a steerable tracking array the best antenna for space is an "egg beater" with a 1/4 wave groundplane coming in a close second. Forget about gain antennas, they only work near the horizon while the groundplane's high radiation angle is ideal for shooting a bird in space. Hearing a good signal on a "stock" antenna or duckie is possible but usually a crap shoot, you'll get 7 or snake eyes depending on your luck.

"My car audio does not sound like a whine, so I guess it's not spark plugs."

The alternator whines, spark plugs pop, the computer and sensors make all sorts of screwy sounds so what does it sound like?

"One question I had that wasn't really answered was the 145.8 Mhz transmission for ISS. How do you know this is FM?"

Because we KNOW you little snot! (;->)

"...how do you KNOW that a frequency isn't, say, USB, etc.?"

Knowledge + experience = wisdom.

Arrr, when ye git old an' grow a beard ye'll be as smart as we are you young whippersnapper! With age comes wisdom and the phrase "We get too soon old and too late smart." so get smart as soon as you can. Just read and be patient, your vocabulary will grow with your knowledge but you'll learn all the wrong words here. Many of us aren't any more knowledgable than you, we're all learning and helping each other. THEN the right words come but they come from books, we just pass them along. In other words, do some book reading and teach us!

"At least this reply ends on an easy one."

If you think it's easy ya ain't seen nuttin' yet. Let me introduce you to my leetle friend, Murphy. (;->)

 

[Al42]

One question I had that wasn't really answered was the 145.8 Mhz transmission for ISS. How do you know this is FM?

Same way we know that red means stop and green means go - agreed-upon convention. There's almost no other reason (see aircraft below).

I mean, I know it is because of the replies here, but for future frequencies, how do you KNOW that a frequency isn't, say, USB, etc.?

Most voice communications below 30 MHz today (other than broadcast stations, which are AM) are SSB. Below about 10 MHz it's LSB, above it's USB - again, by long-agreed-upon convention. (Mostly because of the way early ham SSB signals were generated.)

About the only voice mode that's not "just by convention" is AM use on aircraft frequencies. As someone else glossed over, if there's an aircraft transmitting, and another one yelling for help on the same frequency, it's possible (later on and in the lab) to isolate the two signals and find out what the problem with the (now) crashed aircraft was. NTSB is funny that way - they like to know causes. If the signals were FM, only the stronger one would be received, so the information from the weaker one would be lost.

 

[nexus]

"Amateur satellites use transponders so most don't transmit FM, it's very wasteful of precious little power and kills the batteries that take forever to recharge."

I beg to differ, but AO-51 (ECHO) is specifically FM VOICE and PACKET exclusively. So there is an amateur satellite up there right now acting as a gigantic fm cross-band repeater.

 

[kb2vxa]

Hi again,

Al, only Amateurs use LSB on 40M and the lower frequency bands and with today's equipment I don't know why we haven't conformed to everything else that uses USB on all HF frequencies.

Nexus, it's a brand new bird and an exception to the rule. When I write I do so in terms of averages as not to cloud the issue with too many details. Notice my use of the word "most" which leaves room for exeptions. So, you differ with what?