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Response from the FCC on linking repeater audio over the internet and it's legality

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Cruiseomatic

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Taking 2+2 from simple to common core in a complex manner. Cable is copper. POTS is copper. At one point, Both go fiber and back down to copper. So, Maybe I'm missing something but what difference does the medium make? Data is data. If they're worried about a repeater making phone calls, That would fall on the operator. If setup properly, It shouldn't be able to. If there is no connection to a RJ11 port, There is no dialtone to dial out with. Should only use a RJ45 for cat-5 eithernet for the connection. This is just my simpleton understanding. Am I way wrong?
 
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DaveNF2G

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You may predict and assume what courts will do all you want.

The reality is that, first of all, the FCC will issue the NAL to you and you have to respond. You will have to pay for any legal representation, and eat the time lost from work, etc., if you force the matter all the way to court.

The courts defer to the federal agencies that made the rules when interpreting said rules. If the FCC says they mean "connected via phone company" and not "connected using voice", then the court will find you guilty of the violation charged by the FCC.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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You may predict and assume what courts will do all you want.

The reality is that, first of all, the FCC will issue the NAL to you and you have to respond. You will have to pay for any legal representation, and eat the time lost from work, etc., if you force the matter all the way to court.

The courts defer to the federal agencies that made the rules when interpreting said rules. If the FCC says they mean "connected via phone company" and not "connected using voice", then the court will find you guilty of the violation charged by the FCC.
Somewhere deep in an empty warehouse in Gettysburg, is an empty filing cabinet, which contains an empty file folder of all the GMRS licensees ever issued an NAL for linking repeaters.

In short, if you research all the NAL's ever issued to GMRS licensees, there have been none issued for any linking of repeaters. I have searched and found none.



Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk
 

Rred

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Dunno, guys. I read it as an unofficial opinion form a minion, not a statement of fact.

And the minion quotes rules that seem to say that IF the VOIP provider has a PSTN *gateway*, then they cannot be used. That's how network people would phrase it. If you have a conection, or you have the ability to make a connection, then you are going through a "gateway" from an IP network to the PSTN network, and you are interconnected, unless that gateway is physically inaccessible from your VOIP network.

In the case of a cable company, there very much is a gateway from their network to the PSTN network. The same way that an AT&T DSL network uses a gateway to the PSTN network, even if they are using different hardware.

Gateway exists, if you can make "phone calls" form the VOIP. And that makes the entire network it is on, whether that's cable or telco, interconnected and forbidden.

I don't see any gray areas there, except the muddle-headed guy who wrote the reply from the FCC. Y'all might want to explain that point and confirm their lack of logic before gambling an penalties on that.
 

coryb27

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This is not the first response from the FCC I have seen saying linking via the internet is totally legal. People been fighting this opinion for years yet I have never seen a single enforcement action for internet linking, using part 90 equipment, operating a bubble pack radio without a GMRS license. If you think its going to get you in trouble don't do it, I on the other hand will continue to expand our network using the internet to connect more sites. Let the dead horse lay.......
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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This is not the first response from the FCC I have seen saying linking via the internet is totally legal. People been fighting this opinion for years yet I have never seen a single enforcement action for internet linking, using part 90 equipment, operating a bubble pack radio without a GMRS license. If you think its going to get you in trouble don't do it, I on the other hand will continue to expand our network using the internet to connect more sites. Let the dead horse lay.......
Well said.

There is indeed a similar but older thread.

https://forums.radioreference.com/2769638-post17.html

If the weather is too hot, stay at home. Otherwise enjoy!
 

wyShack

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Back in the 'old days' PSTN was more of a protocol than anything else. PSTN (Public Switched Telephone Network) was that part of 'Ma Bell (in the US)' that delivered dial tone. Usually prohibitions on interconnect to the PSTN were to prevent bypassing the phone system for toll calls. The telephone lobby was worried about the missing revenue. Leased lines were never considered part of the PSTN as they were another revenue opportunity rather than a possible attempt to bypass. This information is based on my experience with Part 90 radio systems in the 80's and 90's-before the cellphone companies got into the fight. Most of the old rules are still there mostly due to (I believe) regulatory inertia more than anything else-same reason you still find technical requirements for crystal control.

Just my 2 cents
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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Back in the 'old days' PSTN was more of a protocol than anything else. PSTN (Public Switched Telephone Network) was that part of 'Ma Bell (in the US)' that delivered dial tone. Usually prohibitions on interconnect to the PSTN were to prevent bypassing the phone system for toll calls. The telephone lobby was worried about the missing revenue. Leased lines were never considered part of the PSTN as they were another revenue opportunity rather than a possible attempt to bypass. This information is based on my experience with Part 90 radio systems in the 80's and 90's-before the cellphone companies got into the fight. Most of the old rules are still there mostly due to (I believe) regulatory inertia more than anything else-same reason you still find technical requirements for crystal control.

Just my 2 cents
Exactly the reason for the interconnect prohibition. All obsolete now. When was the last time you made a toll call? I doubt anyone born after 1985 has a clue what "long distance" was all about. AT&T vs Carterphone anybody remember that?
 

coryb27

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The long distance wars of the 80's, MCI, AT&T, Bell Atlantic, GTE Sprint. Sometimes you would answer the phone and you somehow agreed to change long distance providers. Snail mail was chocked full of ads for cheap long distance, the yellow pages was 1 if not 2 10lb books and you still needed a residential book for you area......
 

k8zgw

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GMRS RoIP (Radio over Internet Protocol

While Rich and I have our "differences", I have to say he is "spot on".
The whole idea of not being able to connect to the PSTN, is to prevent
someone from "dialing in" a GMRS system.
It seems to me that everyone is "over-thinking" this question.
I am currently working a project to connect a radio to a Raspberry pi.
With end to end R-Pi's to make my own RoIP system.

Don, K8ZGW ex KAD1746
 
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