Retevis Retevis 900MHz license-free radio

[sploits]

The power limit in the 902-928MHz band is 1 mW (0 dBm) for a non-FHSS radio, i.e., a conventional radio.

How are 900mhz WiFi waps able to get approved to run in the 904-926mhz range? I didn't think that 802.11ah used FHSS.

https://fccid.io/SWX-M900L

Thanks!

 

[WPXS472]

I don't know if they are for real or not, but I ordered 2. Wonder which programming cable they use. I'm a sucker for anything 900 MHz. I had one of those high powered spread spectrum phones years ago, also had a pair of eXRS radios. Big mistake. They were junk from the get go. Bought a couple of DTRs, but didn't like them. The talk permit tone drove me nuts. I didn't get the range others claim either. So, we'll see about these. I'll report back when, and if, I get them. Paid with PayPal, so I should be able to get my money back if they never show up. I have never owned a Retevis. They look a lot like Baofeng, which I do have. The UV5 seems OK except for the lousy user interface. I bought one of their early DMR handies, never got the thing to work. It is drawer ballast.

 

[gman1971]

Good luck!

 

[WPXS472]

Thanks!

 

[WPXS472]

Good luck!

I still don't know if they exist, or not. But, I got a DHL tracking number from Retevis. I paid extra for expedited shipping, should know soon. If they are what they say they are, they should be sold as amateur radios. That would be the only legal use for them. I looked over the weekend for any FCC ID, couldn't find them. I went ahead and bought a Kenwood type USB programming cable. I seem to remember seeing something about that in the Retevis information. They really should come with the cable.

 

[alcahuete]

I still don't know if they exist, or not. But, I got a DHL tracking number from Retevis. I paid extra for expedited shipping, should know soon. If they are what they say they are, they should be sold as amateur radios. That would be the only legal use for them. I looked over the weekend for any FCC ID, couldn't find them. I went ahead and bought a Kenwood type USB programming cable. I seem to remember seeing something about that in the Retevis information. They really should come with the cable.

DHL still exists. LOL!!! You don't hear of them a whole lot in the US anymore. They will get it over here and then it usually goes to a shipping partner (normally USPS) for the actual delivery.

 

[sploits]

I still don't know if they exist, or not.

I looked over the weekend for any FCC ID, couldn't find them.

Retevis seems to have a habit of jumping the gun and selling radios before they have their FCC grants approved. I ordered some RT27V MURS radios off of amazon in August 2019 and when they showed up, I realized that there was no FCC approval for them (despite an FCC ID being stamped in the back of the radio), nor any software available yet. I was considering returning them but about a week later (on 9/2/2019) the RT27V application was approved. I'm assuming your radio is going to have 2ASNSRT10 stamped in the back even though it's not an approved FCC ID yet. This might be why they're selling limited quantities (on sites like ebay but not amazon). I'd wager that you will have RT10 radios show up, but what I think is up in their air is if they will ever get an FCC grant as an unlicensed radio like they're being advertised as, because of the concerns earlier in this thread about them not using spread spectrum or frequency hopping or whatever.

Something I'll give Retevis credit for is their customer service is super responsive. When I got my RT27V and there was no software available yet, they sent it to me immediately even though it wasn't completely finished (I wanted to change from low (default) to high power).

Anyways good luck and I'm excited to see what your first impressions are. I really hope it gets a grant as an unlicensed radio but it may just be too good to be true.

 

[WPXS472]

Retevis seems to have a habit of jumping the gun and selling radios before they have their FCC grants approved. I ordered some RT27V MURS radios off of amazon in August 2019 and when they showed up, I realized that there was no FCC approval for them (despite an FCC ID being stamped in the back of the radio), nor any software available yet. I was considering returning them but about a week later (on 9/2/2019) the RT27V application was approved. I'm assuming your radio is going to have 2ASNSRT10 stamped in the back even though it's not an approved FCC ID yet. This might be why they're selling limited quantities (on sites like ebay but not amazon). I'd wager that you will have RT10 radios show up, but what I think is up in their air is if they will ever get an FCC grant as an unlicensed radio like they're being advertised as, because of the concerns earlier in this thread about them not using spread spectrum or frequency hopping or whatever.

Something I'll give Retevis credit for is their customer service is super responsive. When I got my RT27V and there was no software available yet, they sent it to me immediately even though it wasn't completely finished (I wanted to change from low (default) to high power).

Anyways good luck and I'm excited to see what your first impressions are. I really hope it gets a grant as an unlicensed radio but it may just be too good to be true.

Even if they decide to sell it as a ham radio, they will still need to get the receiver certified under part 15. I think they decided to try to sell it as a license free model is because 900 isn't a popular band with hams, and they would get more sales pitching it as an upscale option to FRS. I was looking at the programming side of it, and noticed that they have two different levels of encryption. One looks to be 256 bit, though they don't say. That would have to go as a ham radio, because encryption isn't allowed. I don't know much about DMR, but noticed that you can select slot 1, 2, or both. Interesting. I also noticed that there is a box for power level, though the only selection is "high". You can program 902 and 928 even, which shouldn't be allowed. It has selectable bandwidth. Everything I have ever used on 900 has been narrow band. I imagine that only sets the transmit deviation though. I am eagerly awaiting them, and will post a review as soon as possible. I don't see them being around very long. Without FCC ID, someone in government will put a stop to them pretty soon.

 

[sploits]

That would have to go as a ham radio, because encryption isn't allowed.

Is it not allowed because it's voice? Those gotenna radio hotspot things that let you operate a mesh network and use cellphones out of range of towers apparently support encryption and are in what I understand to be the ISM band. https://fccid.io/2ABVK80085.

Also 900mhz wireless access points, is this not in the ISM band? Those definitely have encryption. For example, https://fccid.io/SWX-M900L.

 

[WPXS472]

No, because it is Amateur radio. The ISM stuff can be encrypted, just not ham stuff.
A big part of the discussion around these is because Retevis is selling them as "license free" with a power output of 1 watt. FCC rules only allow that power for spread spectrum radios, or Amateur radios. They aren't spread spectrum, and Retevis isn't advertising them as Amateur radios.

 

[va2dg]

Well The RT-10 is an Ham Radio portable in the 902-928mhz Analog and DMR.
i bought 2 and on 927.500 the SImplex channel i did a Contact with my budy, he is about 900m from me and was in the basement of my home with concrete and lots of other building betweem us. He was using a GTX900 at 10w with a mobile antenna in the attic. And the portable at 1w rubber antenna we were able to make a decent contact. But regarding DMR the 900 DMR Repeater is too far from home. I have to use an XPR4580 at 30watt to hit the repeater with 6 db antenna a 48'. But when i will go to Montreal i will bring the portable and try it. I will also tune one of my MMDVM Hotspot from 440 to 927 so i can use the portable in DMR. Radio is the same size as the TYT MD380.
73
Daniel VA2DG

 

[gman1971]

Well, as expected from CCRs... range is measured in tenths of a mile... with 10w too... better stick to DTR if you want range measured in miles, rather than tenths of a mile.

 

[DanRollman]

Well, as expected from CCRs... range is measured in tenths of a mile... with 10w too... better stick to DTR if you want range measured in miles, rather than tenths of a mile.

Stick to DTR if you want actual FHSS at all, regardless of range.

 

[gman1971]

Stick to DTR if you want actual FHSS at all, regardless of range.

That too. +1

G.

 

[vagrant]

Agreed on FHSS, or SSB, or AM, etc. I purchased the RT10 to use it for amateur FM analog and it works great with Motorola repeaters, or simplex with Moto and other RT10 handheld radios.

Stick to DTR if you want actual FHSS at all, regardless of range.

Pssst....it works further than a mile, but that's our secret.

Well, as expected from CCRs... range is measured in tenths of a mile... with 10w too... better stick to DTR if you want range measured in miles, rather than tenths of a mile.

 

[gman1971]

on 10w? I sure hope so.... I doubt simplex on 1w can reach further than 1/4 mile...

G.

 

[AM909]

@WPXS472: So what did these end up being?

 

[vagrant]

I strongly encourage you to test handheld radios using only one watt. They need not be the Retevis. Additionally, try different terrains and make notes. Then try them again different times of the year, or after it rains, or even different times of day. Environmental conditions affect the results good and bad. Line Of Sight is not the rule either as ground bounce could be in or out of phase. Basically, I cannot say I will always get three miles or more from a one watt radio, just as you cannot say it would not be more than 1/4 mile. We (you, me, everybody) simply do not use radios in some sterile/uniform free space environment.

Anyone who has used a handheld radio often enough can attest to ground bounce and phasing whether simplex, or via a repeater. For example, if your signal was weak and you took a step or two and it improved…welcome to the phasing club.

I personally enjoy testing in the field. It reaffirms that theory is never fact. The constant analyzing is a pleasure for me. Again, I welcome you to perform your own testing and to accept when even your own results differ.

on 10w? I sure hope so.... I doubt simplex on 1w can reach further than 1/4 mile...

G.

 

[gman1971]

Right,
Already done it, and results were as expected; and there is a reason why these CCRs are so cheap...

1 mile on 1 Watt was easy for my XPR7550e radios, in either bands, UHF or VHF... Things really started to go south after the 1st mile, 2 miles was highly unlikely on 1 watt under most conditions, especially in non LOS situations. In contrast, most of these CCRs I've seen ranges not exceeding 1/3rd or 1/4th of a mile in similar tests, no matter what, and that was on 5W... those things are just that, CCRs, and if simplex range is what you seek, then you should look elsewhere... The DTR radios seem to perform just as good as my XPR radios, and sometimes it would appear they are superior... so I don't expect any CCR 900mhz trash to come close to the DTR radios. Heck, even the older SL7550 (non e) on just 2W with a pathetic antenna demolished every CCR that was tested... so, there is that too.

And the reason for these results is actually pretty simple: The measured dynamic sensitivity on the XPR7550e during these range tests (measured using ISO-tee) was a respectable -120dBm, whereas most CCRs used during these range tests were measured at -92 dBm. That is a whopping 28 dBm difference... that no amount of power on the TX is going to make up for it... but hey, look, my CCR has 500,000 contacts... weeee.... and the CPS was free, woohoo, and the cable too, ... everything was free, well, except for actual range... you don't get much of that.

G.

 

[shelikoff]

It's December and still no FCC Id for these radios. So they can't legally be used license free. And encryption can't be used by hams. This seems like a radio with features searching for a purpose.