Retevis Retevis 900MHz license-free radio

[WPXS472]

@WPXS472: So what did these end up being?

They are more or less what Retevis says they are. They are NOT license free, however. You need an amateur license to use them legally, and even then, you can't use the encryption feature. I was pretty impressed by the way they perform. You can't compare them directly with a commercial quality radio. There is almost no RF filtering in them. They will most likely not work well in high RF environments. I haven't actually tried mine out with respect to range, but expect them to be about the same as every other 900 MHz radio I have tried in my location. There seems to be a definite bias against any radio made in China here. Not altogether without reason. Most of the Chinese radios seem to be made to a price point, not a performance spec, so something has to give. I will say that the Chinese brands have given the traditional brands of ham radios something to think about and give excellent value for the price. Still, the old adage about getting what you pay for holds true. If you want the absolute best performance, be prepared to pay. The Asian brands have been castigated for they way they market their products, and rightly so. It is just irresponsible to sell transmitting equipment without even mentioning that it must be properly licensed. I dare say that an American company couldn't get away with that in China.

 

[KC3ECJ]

Even if they decide to sell it as a ham radio, they will still need to get the receiver certified under part 15. I think they decided to try to sell it as a license free model is because 900 isn't a popular band with hams, and they would get more sales pitching it as an upscale option to FRS. I was looking at the programming side of it, and noticed that they have two different levels of encryption. One looks to be 256 bit, though they don't say. That would have to go as a ham radio, because encryption isn't allowed. I don't know much about DMR, but noticed that you can select slot 1, 2, or both. Interesting. I also noticed that there is a box for power level, though the only selection is "high". You can program 902 and 928 even, which shouldn't be allowed. It has selectable bandwidth. Everything I have ever used on 900 has been narrow band. I imagine that only sets the transmit deviation though. I am eagerly awaiting them, and will post a review as soon as possible. I don't see them being around very long. Without FCC ID, someone in government will put a stop to them pretty soon.

It's probably not popular because companies aren't making radios.

Is this Retevis just FHSS or is it usable for the 33cm amateur band?

It would be cool if there was new manufacture low priced radios for this band.

 

[sploits]

You can program 902 and 928 even, which shouldn't be allowed

900mhz ISM is 902-928 though isn't it? It sounds like these radios are TRYING to be ISM and not HAM. However if they are TRYING to be ISM they shouldn't give you the option to run analog since these radios don't seem to do any kind of frequency hopping.

 

[KC3ECJ]

900mhz ISM is 902-928 though isn't it? It sounds like these radios are TRYING to be ISM and not HAM. However if they are TRYING to be ISM they shouldn't give you the option to run analog since these radios don't seem to do any kind of frequency hopping.

ISM can be analog.

 

[sploits]

ISM can be analog.

There's another RT10 thread where the use of analog without FHSS was discussed:

My review of the Retevis RT10

First, contrary to popular opinion, these are not vaporware. They actually exist, because I have 2 of them. They came with a programming cable, but not knowing that they would, I bought one off eBay. They feel good "in the hand" so to speak. They seem solid. Before doing any testing, I took one...

forums.radioreference.com

The stance in that thread seems to be that analog can only be used in conjunction with FHSS (like how those trisquare radios used to work), but digital modes can use a fixed frequency.

 

[shelikoff]

They are more or less what Retevis says they are. They are NOT license free, however. You need an amateur license to use them legally, and even then, you can't use the encryption feature. I was pretty impressed by the way they perform. You can't compare them directly with a commercial quality radio. There is almost no RF filtering in them. They will most likely not work well in high RF environments. I haven't actually tried mine out with respect to range, but expect them to be about the same as every other 900 MHz radio I have tried in my location. There seems to be a definite bias against any radio made in China here. Not altogether without reason. Most of the Chinese radios seem to be made to a price point, not a performance spec, so something has to give. I will say that the Chinese brands have given the traditional brands of ham radios something to think about and give excellent value for the price. Still, the old adage about getting what you pay for holds true. If you want the absolute best performance, be prepared to pay. The Asian brands have been castigated for they way they market their products, and rightly so. It is just irresponsible to sell transmitting equipment without even mentioning that it must be properly licensed. I dare say that an American company couldn't get away with that in China.

I personally don't have a bias against Chinese brands. In fact, I'm looking at 8 Retevis radios on my shelf right now. But I was hoping to get something for the unlicensed family to use on a cruise coming up that would work well on a ship and these looked promising because Retevis was advertising them as license free. Believe it or not, the cruise line says they won't allow illegal radio operation on the ship. Whether that's enforced I have no idea. So now I'm back to FRS.

 

[shelikoff]

There's another RT10 thread where the use of analog without FHSS was discussed:

My review of the Retevis RT10

First, contrary to popular opinion, these are not vaporware. They actually exist, because I have 2 of them. They came with a programming cable, but not knowing that they would, I bought one off eBay. They feel good "in the hand" so to speak. They seem solid. Before doing any testing, I took one...

forums.radioreference.com

The stance in that thread seems to be that analog can only be used in conjunction with FHSS (like how those trisquare radios used to work), but digital modes can use a fixed frequency.

The wording of the requirement can be read such that even unlicensed digital modes have to be spread out over 500khz, which DMR is not.

 

[KC3ECJ]

There's another RT10 thread where the use of analog without FHSS was discussed:

My review of the Retevis RT10

First, contrary to popular opinion, these are not vaporware. They actually exist, because I have 2 of them. They came with a programming cable, but not knowing that they would, I bought one off eBay. They feel good "in the hand" so to speak. They seem solid. Before doing any testing, I took one...

forums.radioreference.com

The stance in that thread seems to be that analog can only be used in conjunction with FHSS (like how those trisquare radios used to work), but digital modes can use a fixed frequency.

How were analog security cameras ever allowed there then?

 

[shelikoff]

How were analog security cameras ever allowed there then?

They operate under a different section of part 15. There's a lot of different sections for different types of equipment from cordless phones to radio imaging to medical devices. They all have different requirements even though they share the same bands.

Federal Register :: Request Access

We're interested in this section:

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-A/part-15#15.247

 

[gman1971]

If they do exist, as claimed in that thread, they are not FHSS... so there is no FCC because they are not FHSS... but don't you worry tho, Retevis will steal the tech from Motorola, or they are already actively working on reverse engineering these DTR as we speak, I am sure, so they can sell FHSS radios for 9.95 dollars a pop... yeah, its such a great idea to keep giving money to IP thiefs and such just because I want my radios free... cable needs to be free too, b/c how dare they put a price to their work, and the CPS? the CPS MUST be free, too, I am entitled to everything free.

Seriously, if you want an FHSS 900mhz radio that works, just buy a DTR/DLR, .... watching from the outside the CCR fever seems like people are just addicted to the CCR cheap drug... just not sure why...

G.

 

[vagrant]

... but don't you worry tho, Retevis will steal the tech from Motorola, or they are already actively working on reverse engineering these DTR as we speak, I am sure, so they can sell FHSS radios for 9.95 dollars a pop...

Do you have proof of this you can provide the forum? I and probably others would be interested.

Anyways, yes if I want an FHSS 900 MHz radio the DTR or DLR series are great. I have used both series of radios. I don't know of another company that makes FHSS 900MHz radios. I own a pair of the Retevis 900MHz RT10 radios and they work fine on FM simplex and with a local Motorola 33cm repeater. The DTR/DLR series cannot do that. Pssst...I didn't tell the Motorola repeater I was using a Retevis radio, so it wouldn't get it's feelings hurt. My other Motorola 900MHz radios don't mind communicating with the Retevis radios. They're big boys now and wear their big boy pants.

 

[gman1971]

Do you have proof of this you can provide the forum? I and probably others would be interested.

Anyways, yes if I want an FHSS 900 MHz radio the DTR or DLR series are great. I have used both series of radios. I don't know of another company that makes FHSS 900MHz radios. I own a pair of the Retevis 900MHz RT10 radios and they work fine on FM simplex and with a local Motorola 33cm repeater. The DTR/DLR series cannot do that. Pssst...I didn't tell the Motorola repeater I was using a Retevis radio, so it wouldn't get it's feelings hurt. My other Motorola 900MHz radios don't mind communicating with the Retevis radios. They're big boys now and wear their big boy pants.

I don't have proof of that, and never claimed to have such a thing, but you knew that already, didn't you?

Now, why would I want an FHSS license free 1W 900mhz radio to also do FM and then require a license which a lot of people don't have? I think you are missing the whole point of FHSS in 900mhz... but again, you already own a pair of those CCRs, so of course you are going to justify purchasing it at all costs... even if that means making some funny caricature italic noises about radios being big boys....

If I could use high power in a non-FHSS modulation on 900mhz, I certainly won't cheap out on a CCR... I'll just get something along the lines of a 7580e, ... but again, its hard to argue with cheap... I get it.

G.

 

[WPXS472]

It's probably not popular because companies aren't making radios.

Is this Retevis just FHSS or is it usable for the 33cm amateur band?

It would be cool if there was new manufacture low priced radios for this band.

It isn't FHSS. Just regular FM and DMR. They do offer 2 different levels of encryption, though they don't say what algorithm is used. Doesn't matter since amateur can't be encrypted. They could be used on amateur 900 repeaters, as they are capable of PL and DPL, as well as any split you want. I think Retevis is selling them as license free because given the limited range and sporadic use they would most likely see, FCC involvement isn't too likely. Still, it is irresponsible of them to mislead their paying customers. One reason the 900 band isn't popular, besides the obvious is the fact that the FCC has auctioned off huge chunks of it for various commercial uses. Hams will eventually be driven out.

 

[nd5y]

One reason the 900 band isn't popular, besides the obvious is the fact that the FCC has auctioned off huge chunks of it for various commercial uses. Hams will eventually be driven out.

The FCC has not auctioned any of the 902-928 MHz band and they never will because it's full of ISM and other devices and is worthless. Hams could be driven out due to interference and lack of equipment but not because of FCC action.

 

[WPXS472]

Funny you should mention that. A quick search of the fCC database revealed 70 licenses with most being multiple locations and multiple frequencies. Then with regard to auctions, there is this:
Federal Communications Commission DA 14-1257


2 by Progeny LMS, LLC (Progeny).4
I. BACKGROUND
2. Location and Monitoring Service (LMS). In 1995, the Commission established LMS as a
new service in the 902-928 MHz band, under a hierarchy of spectrum usage rights.5 Specifically, this
band is allocated on a primary basis to both Federal radiolocation systems and Industrial, Scientific, and
Medical (ISM) equipment.6 Federal fixed and mobile services are allocated on a secondary basis to
Federal radiolocation systems and ISM equipment. LMS licenses are allocated on a secondary basis to
Federal users and to ISM devices and may not cause interference to and must tolerate interference from
these users and devices.7 Amateur radio operations are allocated on a secondary basis to LMS.8 Finally,
unlicensed devices are authorized under Part 15 to use the 902-928 MHz band, but such devices are not
afforded interference protection rights and may not cause harmful interference to LMS licensees, amateur
operations, or other licensed systems.9
3. The Commission auctioned M-LMS licenses in 1999 and 2001 (Auctions 21 and 39).10
There were 528 licenses available at auction (176 EAs and three M-LMS blocks (A, B and C Blocks) per
market). As a result of the two auctions and various secondary market spectrum disaggregation
transactions, six entities currently hold a total of 614 M-LMS licenses.11
4. In 2003, Havens requested additional time to meet the five-year construction req

I call your attention specifically to paragraph 3.