Riverside County Public Safety Enterprise Communication Project (PSEC)

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hotshotmike1001

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looks like the county is testing the new radio system the old EDACS Networked Standard has no traffic at all Bummer



well soon i will hopfull get the new uniden
 

brandon

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They have moved over to it this AM. Goodbye to the days of listening to RSO on a scanner.
 

ierelay

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Sad day indeed, it reminds me of when they switched over to the EDACS system back in the 90s and we had to wait a few years to get a radio capable of tracking it.

I've already pre-ordered the new Unidens but if the new radio system happens to be encrypted there isnt much hope left.
 

brandon

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Fully encrypted other than a couple mutual aid talkgroups.
 

pepsima1

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San Bernardino County is the next victim to get their vocal cords cut to some sort of degree. Welcome to our new world people.

We are just use to it now here in The OC. 13 years now and going strong.

And then after San Bernardino is LA County Sheriffs and so on and so on.

It really hits below the belt and is a big reality check when you see such a big county go quiet over night. Now everybody realizes the impact of Encryption and the industry is dying a slow death.

Riverside County is the size of some states.
 

brandon

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Not surprised at all. I overheard some people that were involved with the PSEC rollout discussing this and the smartphone topic came up multiple times in their conversation.
 

pepsima1

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The smartphone internet streaming issue is not the whole deciding factor. There are a hand full of cities and counties that went encrypted before smartphones and internet streaming were even thought of. Riverside Co slurped on the Kool-Aid and it tasted good and they bought it. Encryption is not going to keep any city or county safer.

Plus there was only like 1 feed that was streaming in Riverside Co for the past few years and that was it. The audio stream was not broadcasting the whole county anyways. So if there is anyone that works for Riverside Co and says it was from "Streaming Audio over the Internet" they them to go and get some real facts because its all HOT air out of their mouth at this point. They need their heads examined.

Go talked to The LAPD and see how they feel about it. They have been APCO P25 complaint for a lot of years now and they are fully in the clear.
 
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zz0468

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Not surprised at all. I overheard some people that were involved with the PSEC rollout discussing this and the smartphone topic came up multiple times in their conversation.
Early on in the project, encryption was considered because it's just one more tool available to use to keep officers safe from bad guys who may be listening, and because the technology is now nearly seamless and well integrated into the hardware.

In the past, LE started using AM transmitters just above the broadcast band because the technology became available and affordable.

Then they installed transmitters in the cars because it because the technology became available and affordable.

They moved from AM and low band to VHF because the technology became available and affordable.

The went from VHF to 800 MHz trunking because the technology became available and affordable.

They've gone from 800 MHz trunking to P25 phase II encrypted because the technology became available and affordable.

It's the natural progression of technology. It's not done out of dislike or fear of scanner listeners, or a desire to hide from public view. It's done because LE perceives that secure communications will help keep them safer as they do their jobs safer. Never mind whether or not the perception is accurate or true. It's the end users perceptions that matter, not people who listen in for entertainment.

Hobbyist scanner listeners are not really considered one way or another, and would be considered collateral damage, the cost of more secure communications for the people actually using it.

That some agencies chose not to encrypt while others do merely reflects the opinions of the individuals making the final decisions. And that's driven by a whole lot more than just whether or not the public can listen to it. Since, by definition, private radio systems are not intended for public consumption, there really is no implied right to listen.
 

805MONITOR

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Its not a private radio system.. its a public radio system, used by a public agency paid for by the public. One more way for the Gov. to hide any possible violations they may commit while the citizen looses his or her right to monitor its police force to hold accountable its potential unlawful actions. Same as the gun rights argument. A few bad guys get used as an excuse for all of us law abiding citizens to loose our rights to own a gun for protection. open your eyes
 

mikew66

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I thought something was wrong with my scanner tonight and found this post. I had no idea this was happening.

Sent from my Amazon Kindle Fire HD using Tapatalk
 

pepsima1

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Well The LAPD has some of the most dangerous parts of town in South LA where the majority of officers don't step a foot in some of these neighborhoods after darkness sets in.

Their APCO P25 digital radios have the capacity to use Encryption but Charlie Chief Beck has made it completely clear that their radio system will stay in the clear for transparency concerns.

It keeps the department open to the public and keeps their officers on the straight and arrow. Also, keeps the general public that live within the city limits to be aware on what is going on in their neighborhoods.

Trust me there are some really bad people that live and reside within the The LA City limits and when you listen there is always some bad going down at all times.

Also, the new LA-RICS APCO P25 Phase II system is underway and being built out soon for the whole county of LA and LAPD has a chance to join this new Phase II system and they are bowing out and staying on their APCO P25 Conventional system. I think they are making the right decision to stay seperate. I think The LAPD has the best police chief ever. He has risen up the ranks from the ground floor and is a solid man that knows what is best for his department. So when you see these cookie cutter small departments start to flip the Encryption switch on then it really makes you wonder really why.

In conclusion to my findings is that there is no solid hard factual evidence saying that any department is safer using Encryption one bit. Orange County has been using full Encryption for the past 13 years and we had a COP killer running around on the streets killing good people and the residents were blind to what was happening for the first 24 hours while they were hiding the story from the public.
 
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zz0468

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Its not a private radio system...
Wrong. It's a private system intended for use only by the agency that built it.

A public system is one built for use by the general public. Cellphones are part of a public system.

its a public radio system, used by a public agency paid for by the public.
"its a private radio system, used by a public agency paid for by the public."

There. I fixed it for you. =)

Just to clarify, this system operates under 47CFR Part 90 of the FCC rules and regulations. Part 90 is known as "Private Land Mobile Radio Services"

Here's a useful link to help you understand where I'm coming from:

FCC: Wireless Services: Private Land Mobile Radio Services: Private Land Mobile

One more way for the Gov. to hide any possible violations they may commit while the citizen looses his or her right to monitor its police force to hold accountable its potential unlawful actions.
Wrong again. There is no "right to monitor". Where on earth did you get that? Could you show us where in the Constitution or Bill of Rights it says we have a "right to monitor"? You can't, because there is no such right.

There are mechanisms in place to hold law enforcement agencies accountable to the public, and none of them require public access to their radio communications. The fact is, if anything seriously nefarious is taking place in a department, chances are, the communications related to this nefarious action is taking place via cellphone which... wait for it... CAN'T BE MONITORED.

If your concerned about what the police are doing, take your concerns to the Grand Jury. They are tasked with providing public oversight over government agencies like law enforcement, etc. There are requirements for logging radio and telephone traffic, and those logs are discoverable evidence. If there was to be some sort of episode of police abuse, logs of radio traffic can be subpoenaed as evidence.

The notion of scanner hobbyists being the last bastion of political freedom and saviors against police brutality in the U.S. is patently absurd.

Same as the gun rights argument. A few bad guys get used as an excuse for all of us law abiding citizens to loose our rights to own a gun for protection. open your eyes
My eyes ARE open. After 35 some odd years in public safety communications, I have a very good idea as to the reasons behind the move toward encryption. It's very simple, and none of them have anything to do with hiding accountability or a dislike of scanner listeners.

Here they are:

1. There is a perception among LE agencies that they are facing more serious criminal threats than they have in the past: terrorism, sophisticated street gangs, and drug cartels.

2. The technology is becoming easier and more cost effective to implement.

3. Any tool that can be acquired to help mitigate item #1 above will be considered for use.
 
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zz0468

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In conclusion to my findings is that there is no solid hard factual evidence saying that any department is safer using Encryption one bit.
As flawed as your research may be, the decision to encrypt is not necessarily based on anything other than a perception that the officers would be safer. Perception trumps reality every time.

Orange County has been using full Encryption for the past 13 years and we had a COP killer running around on the streets killing good people and the residents were blind to what was happening for the first 24 hours while they were hiding the story from the public.
But there are major components of that situation that encryption is NOT designed or intended to protect against. If the cop killer had a scanner or listened to an ap on his phone, then encryption could possibly prevent an ambush. But encryption is not going to help anybody in the earliest stages of a crime when no one really knows what's going on except the killer.

Considering that the number of scanner listeners within the general population is infinitesimal, in terms of percentage, having the ability to listen isn't going to help the public at large. The small amount of benefit of having the public listen in can be overshadowed by the small amount of benefit that can be had by encrypting. It's all about perceptions...
 
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pepsima1

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Wrong. It's a private system intended for use only by the agency that built it.

A public system is one built for use by the general public. Cellphones are part of a public system.



"its a private radio system, used by a public agency paid for by the public."

There. I fixed it for you. =)

Just to clarify, this system operates under 47CFR Part 90 of the FCC rules and regulations. Part 90 is known as "Private Land Mobile Radio Services"

Here's a useful link to help you understand where I'm coming from:

FCC: Wireless Services: Private Land Mobile Radio Services: Private Land Mobile



Wrong again. There is no "right to monitor". Where on earth did you get that? Could you show us where in the Constitution or Bill of Rights it says we have a "right to monitor"? You can't, because there is no such right.

There are mechanisms in place to hold law enforcement agencies accountable to the public, and none of them require public access to their radio communications. The fact is, if anything seriously nefarious is taking place in a department, chances are, the communications related to this nefarious action is taking place via cellphone which... wait for it... CAN'T BE MONITORED.

If your concerned about what the police are doing, take your concerns to the Grand Jury. They are tasked with providing public oversight over government agencies like law enforcement, etc. There are requirements for logging radio and telephone traffic, and those logs are discoverable evidence. If there was to be some sort of episode of police abuse, logs of radio traffic can be subpoenaed as evidence.

The notion of scanner hobbyists being the last bastion of political freedom and saviors against police brutality in the U.S. is patently absurd.



My eyes ARE open. After 35 some odd years in public safety communications, I have a very good idea as to the reasons behind the move toward encryption. It's very simple, and none of them have anything to do with hiding accountability or a dislike of scanner listeners.

Here they are:

1. There is a perception among LE agencies that they are facing more serious criminal threats than they have in the past: terrorism, sophisticated street gangs, and drug cartels.

2. The technology is becoming easier and more cost effective to implement.

3. Any tool that can be acquired to help mitigate item #1 above will be considered for use.
Bottom line is that you have no answer to why the toughest city in the US is keeping their communications completely open to the general public. You seem to pick apart paragraphs and have a complete negative thought process about everything. Of course you are a radio engineer that drinks the Kool-Aid too. Sounds like you have some strong ties to Riverside County. We all can read between the lines.

Honestly it really doesn't matter what Riverside County has done to go silent overnight. There are a lot of cities and big counties across the US and the world that have really took a balanced approach to keeping LE supposedly safer and also keeping the general tax paying citizens from being shut out completely. You have cities that are a complete jungle town and are completely wide open in the clear and are APCO P25 compliant and will keep an open approach and then you have quiet bedroom communities with all retired folks that are completely locked down in their homes are sleeping like babies by 8pm at night. Palm Springs for example. Full Encryption

If it was all about perception then every radio communication would be full Encrypted. Fire and Public Works too, RIGHT??????
 

marcotor

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How were the murders in Irvine hidden from anyone? Considering the connection to Dorner took some time for the Irvine PD to even put together? Or, do you claim the detectives on scene broadcasted that night they believed "Christopher Dorner, former LAPD employee, is definitely the person who committed these homicides" ??

Can you cite one instance where a scanner hobbyist changed anything in the public interest?

Scanner hobbyists are

Not LEO,
Not "heroes"
Not anything but a person with a radio.
 
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