Rockland TRS Update

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GTR8000

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This is an "unofficial" update on the Rockland TRS as of May 21, 2008. It is by no means an all-inclusive update, it's just hitting on a few key points of major interest.


- Effective May 15, 2008, the FCC has granted the county another 2 year construction deadline, now set to expire on September 9, 2010

- The county is currently in the process of negotiating multiple leases for the system sites

- Construction has begun on one of the major system network towers

- The county has switched the system architecture from Astro 25 LE to Astro 25 IP (which will eventually be software-upgraded to the APCO P25 Phase II TDMA standard), and will use GTR8000 linear base/repeater stations and MCC7500 consoles

- Construction of the new county communications center is slated to begin shortly

- The county will be a Gateway Partner (Level 2) on the NYS SWN system

- The county is working with neighboring jurisdictions to create interoperability with their trunking or conventional systems

- The county TRS will be interoperable with the V-Call, U-Call and I-Call systems
 
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studgeman

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The one behind the fire training center. It is being strenghtend to handle the additional load of the microwave dishes. Several more sites are just waiting to have all the "I"s dotted and "T"s crossed on the paperwork before work can begin.

[Edit] I missed something when I posted earlier. The system will NOT be P25 Phase II TDMA. It will be capable of being upgrade at a future date with software. TDMA Phase II is not currently available and will not be currently available in a UHF system for at least a couple of years.
 
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Larryfire26

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So Basically once completed we can throw away all our scanner and motorola ht equipment! Hmmm very interesting!

Did anyone ask why the change and how it will benefit the emergency crews! I am sure the taxpayer will be asking questions very shortly!

Another question arises! What about lowband and the many minitor pagers out there for the FD!

Did someone say Interoperability between the counties! GOOD LUCK! In fact its a serious issue thats 20 years behind the times!
 

studgeman

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To the doubting poster, you may be interested to know that Begen County is moving to the same type of system.

And if you are involved in emergency services in Rockland County I suggest you ask your user committee representative and get the answers to your questions, instead of relying on anoynmous sources on a message board.
 

GTR8000

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EDIT: Cleared up via PM :)
 
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studgeman

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res6cue_dot_com said:
The bigger point is that the system will be IP based, and thus not monitorable.
The IP is used in the backend, as a P25 compliant system the air interface must meet the standard, therefore monitorable. The IP in ASTRO 25 IP is more of a manufacturer moniker to distinguish the 7.x series of system from the 6.x series of systems.
 

GTR8000

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Thanks, Studge...I edited my posts to reflect that. Seems I jumped the gun a bit on that one!
 

gcr33

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Low band equipment is almost impossible to find.

Having everyone toned out and running on the same low band channels is not a good idea. Nothing like someone going enroute as 21-102 comes on and tones out dept 12.

The low band pagers should stay for awhile. There are no trunking pagers, but there are uhf pagers.
 

GTR8000

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gcr33 said:
Having everyone toned out and running on the same low band channels is not a good idea.
This issue could've been addressed years ago when the county got a license to operate on 46.48 (F3). They could've dedicated 46.18 (F1) to paging/dispatch only, and made 46.08 (F2) the primary ops channel, with 46.48 (F3) being the major incidents channel. This idea was proposed and ultimately rejected. Point is, the county did not need an entirely new radio system just to alleviate this issue. I'm not suggesting the TRS isn't needed or isn't a good idea, but specific to this one particular issue in and of itself, it's hardly justification for such a complex new system.


gcr33 said:
Nothing like someone going enroute as 21-102 comes on and tones out dept 12.
I guess it's been a while since you've been in or listened to Rockland. PD hasn't dispatched the FD in years. Suffern and Haverstraw Villages were the last to dispatch their respective FD's. With the disbanding of Haverstraw Village PD, and the fire radio not being relocated to Haverstraw Town PD, there went that. Suffern still has a low band radio, but they do not dispatch Dept 19 anymore. Spring Valley PD no longer has a low band radio. Ramapo and Stony Point both still have their low band radios, but do not and have not dispatched FD for decades. Orangetown still performs the 1800 hr test for Depts 12 and 21, but they do not dispatch them.

The closest thing you'll find to a non-44-Control initiated dispatch these days is the Gamewell box alarm systems in Haverstraw Village (Dept 4) and the Nyacks (Dept 10). When a box is transmitted, it triggers a local encoder to sound the respective dept's "Home Alert" QCII tones that alert the pagers, and the horns blow out the box #. At the same time, the box # is transmitted to 44-Control where it is received by a Digitize System 3505 unit that shows the location of the box. At that point, 44-Control enters the location into the CAD, creates an incident, resounds the tones, and transmits a full dispatch over the air.



gcr33 said:
The low band pagers should stay for awhile. There are no trunking pagers, but there are uhf pagers.
The ultimate plan is to move to UHF paging simulcast from 9 or so different sites. Lowband will likely remain in use for awhile via multicasting and crosspatching.
 

SCANdal

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Larryfire26 said:
So Basically once completed we can throw away all our scanner and motorola ht equipment! Hmmm very interesting!

Did anyone ask why the change and how it will benefit the emergency crews! I am sure the taxpayer will be asking questions very shortly!

Did someone say Interoperability between the counties! GOOD LUCK! In fact its a serious issue thats 20 years behind the times!
26,

No need to throw anything away. Perhaps upgrade some equipment - but not throw anything out.

Regarding how "it will benefit the emergency crews": As mentioned above, low band equipment is getting harder to find. But, there is more to it then that. At present the county's emergency medical services operate on VHF - high band. The police operate on VHF - high band and UHF (counting the Thruway troopers) and the fire / rescue services operate on a mix of VHF low band and UHF frequencies. Just as New York City is slowly working it's way toward implementing it's "one radio" concept...so is Rockland. The idea is that with one radio - in this case a UHF trunked one - a member of the public safety community (be it a police officer, an EMT, a firefighter, or an emergency manager) should be able to talk to anyone else in that same community, without having to carry multiple radios or relying on dispatcher intervention through the establishment of patches or other extraordinary steps (activating ACU1000s, etc.).

I'm not too concerned about the taxpayer. Most all are very ignorant or simply don't care. Witness how many school district budgets passed on the first go-around earlier this week. Speaking as a property taxpayer myself, I'd rather see the money spent on public safety equipment upgrades and the paving of our roads, rather then some of the other foolish nonsense I see it spent on lately (i.e.: those white strobe lights atop the school buses - how is use of that color even legal?).

Lastly, re: interops between counties...you're right, it most certainly is an issue that needs to be addressed. As most scannists in the know are already aware, many bordering agencies are already capable of the channels used by their mutual aid partners over the "county line." What Rockland apprears to be working toward is a more broadbased system because the day may come when, for example, more then just Sloatsburg FD is needed in Tuxedo - and the incoming Rockland department may not be capable of Orange's channels. It makes sense to me to have the function of interoperability handled on a county level, as opposed to local agencies (Woodbury / Stony Point, South Orangetown / Northern Valley, Pearl River / Montvale, etc., etc., etc.) simply having their own local arrangements.

I wish the RCSD and it's Comms men continued success as they drive this system toward completion.

SCANdal
 
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MFR465

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Bergen County hasn't switched to P25... when it does happen (which won't be for some time)... the only agency switching over is the BERGEN COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT.
 

GTR8000

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The Rockland and Bergen systems will share the Stag Hill (Mahwah) site, and will be physically connected at that location.
 

nyscan

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studgeman said:
as a P25 compliant system the air interface must meet the standard, therefore monitorable
Will this remain true even with the possible future upgrade to the Phase II TDMA standard?
 

gcr33

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While, it's true I have not listened to Rockland for some time there was always 7-102 and 21-102 booming across the airwaves.

Again availability of low band equipment is drying up.

P25 does not mean it cannot be encrypted. P25 is only an operating standard. The i tacs, u tacs etc will not be encrypted.
 

Larryfire26

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I agree, It is time to upgrade, but the upgrade should be done correctly the first time!
I also agree never throw away communications equipment! The other item is intercounty communications! YES this should be done on a county level, these little towns and there special aggrements just do not cut it. It will be nice to have just ONE radio to communicate as right now as an interior Fire Fighter I would be concerned who is listening to what low band or UHF! Its always nice to know that you are being heard outside of the building.

I also wish the committie good luck and press the county to spend the bucks and get it done!
 

gcr33

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Larry, where are you getting your low band portables from for interior fire fighting?
 

GTR8000

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We don't use lowband for interior firefighting, we use UHF analog simplex and have for over a decade now.

465.58750 WNSC439 M 167.9 PL Tac-1 Vehicle Repeater FM Fire-Tac
465.63750 WNSC439 M 167.9 PL Tac-2 Fireground FM Fire-Tac
460.63750 WNSC439 M 167.9 PL Tac-3 Fireground FM Fire-Tac
460.61250 WNSC439 M 167.9 PL Tac-4 Fireground FM Fire-Tac
465.61250 WNSC439 M 167.9 PL Tac-5 Fireground FM Fire-Tac
460.58750 WNSC439 M 167.9 PL Tac-6 Fireground FM Fire-Tac

Lowband portables are used primarily by responding Officers who either aren't issued a lowband mobile, or who don't have access to one (work hours, in a POV instead of their Chief vehicle, etc). There are quite a number of MT1000's still in service (can't kill them!) or HT750/HT1250 for the newer stuff.
 
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