RWC Issues

[chris480]

OK I know someone is going to say not him again! I do a lot of traveling for my job and take my Pro 106 with me along with my premium subscription to RR and my laptop. I have listened to many systems P25, Moto etc and have never had as much issues as I do with the RWC. It seems lately its getting worse for some reason? When I am in town I travel around the valley... Here is what I have tried:

I live close to the 101 and 51 area.

1. I had Simulcast A only - I understand this to be closer to downtown than where I am, at home I get good coverage depending how I am holding my Pro 106. When I traveled around the valley it was very choppy even off of the 51 and say Camelback ( I would expect it to be the best in that area) Since then I know have Simulcast A, Thompson Peak, C, F and H with the same results I have the system set as Roam and a High Threshold of 99 and a Low Threshold of 90. I am using a 800Mhz antenna on the handheld. When im in the car I have a trunk mounted 800Mhz ant and get worse reception.

2. PHX Fire I had Simulcast B and had the same issues, at home its ok, but traveling around even on the 51 and Camelback its bad choppy. I have added C,F,H as well and set to Roam with High of 99 and low of 90.

Do I have something wrong? Shouldn't I get PHX PD and FD clear from my location, and when I travel around the phoenix area since I have multiple simulcasts and I have them on roam with the 99 and 90 threshold? Maybe I can send someone my .gr5 file or I can get a copy of someones that I can check out?

On another Note: Now from my home I cant get Tempe, Chandler, and I get Scottsdale very choppy, I only have the Simulcasts for the listening city in. Now its so frustrating that I can go to a city that has many suburbs but I can hear them all from one location, is there no way to accomplish this at my home without some super antenna set up?

As far as MCSO I get them pretty well all over the valley, not sure If I am getting everything such as Lakes, Medical Examiner, etc all I really hear is East and West dispatch.

Thanks again for the help, again im just frustrated because I guess I am comparing this system to other comparable systems I have monitored without any issues at all and this seems to keep getting worse.

 

[KB7MIB]

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Simulcasts A & B have multiple sites all over Phoenix. (9 each according to the SWFD-9.) Each site under Simulcast A all use the same frequencies. Each site under Simulcast B all use the same frequencies.

 

[KB7MIB]

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This then causes multi-path interference when our scanner receives the same signal, on the same frequency, from 2 or more sites at different times, fractions of a second apart. Our scanners then can't decode the data stream properly, resulting in...

 

[KB7MIB]

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garbled audio. Professional radios costing 10x as much as our scanners have better hardware/software/firmware, so they can process the out-of-phase signals better, although they, too, sometimes have problems.

 

[KB7MIB]

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Simulcast C has 4 sites in the Ahwatukee/Chandler/Tempe area, and their transmitters are designed to focus their signals in that area. Simulcast F focuses it's signals in Tempe. Simulcast H in Scottsdale. G in the West Valley. J in the Southwest Valley.

 

[KB7MIB]

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Due to focusing their signals in a specific target area, you're not going to receive them well outside of those areas. Now, some talkgroups from one simulcast are carried on other simulcasts. I can get some PHX PD TG's, such as 800 and 900, on G...

 

[KB7MIB]

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but I can't get, say 400 or 700, because G wasn't set up to carry them full time, if at all. You may get some Scottsdale, Tempe and Chandler TG's on A and/or B, but not all.

 

[KB7MIB]

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Now, the County doesn't use a P25 simulcast system. They use a Smartnet or Smart Zone system. Each site use different frequencies, not the same ones, so there is no multi-path interference, so the signal is cleaner, and the data easier to decode.

 

[KB7MIB]

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So, basically, to listen to Phoenix, et al, you have to be substantially closer to one transmitter site than any other, or you need to use a directional antenna pointed at a specific site, nulling the others, so as to minimize the multi-path interference.

 

[KB7MIB]

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BTW, I use a PSR-500, the same scanner internally as your PRO-106, and the settings are the same. Roam/99/90.

 

[Phoenix805]

Interesting information, thanks. I'm 'old school' - VHF/UHF simplex/repeater. I still have trouble comprehending all the simulcasts - multi-sites - intellirepeaters, etc. I tried looking up some of the station/antenna sites and totally confused myself. What you said would explain some of my confusion.

When I hired on with the City in the mid 70s we had 1 base station, 2 mobiles in the foreman's and supervisor's cars, and 1 'portable' the size of a small briefcase that was shared among the tecks. When I retired 5 years ago every employee in the section had their own HT. Most of those years we used a 450Mhz band repeater. We switched over to the RWC system about a year before I left. Our training was basically 'push and hold the button until the 'talk beep' sounds, then talk!

Prior to getting the new radios they talked/bragged about interoperability and how we would be able to talk directly with the Fire Department and Police Department and even other City Departments, but after getting the radios we never heard anything more about it. All they said was put your radio on G-6 (or whatever it was) and that's where you stay. Somehow I found out that if I switched to G-7 I could talk to the Sign Shop and report damaged signs.

Sorry, getting a bit long and off subject.

 

[chris480]

KB7MIB

Thanks again for all the help! I understand how this works a little better now after reading your post. I always thought Sim A, B etc was one tower within the city. So I have a question, if I'm at home and not traveling should I bump my threshold up High 99 and say low 98 or 95 so that way I am sure to only get the tower with the best signal? I guess when I travel around town there isn't much I can do.

Also not sure if this makes since or not but sometimes when the signal is so choppy if I turn off the scanner and turn it back on I start picking up a little clearer, is this because it picks up another tower?

 

[KB7MIB]

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You can play with the threshold settings and see if that helps.
When you turn your scanner on/off, it rescans the CC's, and may lock onto a stronger simulcast system. Your scanner may have been on H, then when it rescanned, it went to A, for example.

 

[chris480]

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You can play with the threshold settings and see if that helps.
When you turn your scanner on/off, it rescans the CC's, and may lock onto a stronger simulcast system. Your scanner may have been on H, then when it rescanned, it went to A, for example.

What if I only have one of my scan lists to scan PPD and only hit Simulcast A and it still does it, is that because of the different towers that broadcast A? Is there a list of where these tower locations are? If I set the threshold differently does that have the same effect when just one Simulcast is in the list? Will it try to find the best signal from the best tower that has A? Thanks! I am going to play with my settings a little bit.

 

[KB7MIB]

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If you've just got one Simulcast in, I'm not sure how it may settle on a cleaner signal.
And I think there are links in the DB as to where each Simulcast has a site, but they don't show up in the mobile version, so you'd have to do some searching in it.

 

[KB7MIB]

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Also, if you know how to search the FCC's ULS database, they have location information in there as well.

 

[Phoenix805]

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And I think there are links in the DB as to where each Simulcast has a site, but they don't show up in the mobile version, so you'd have to do some searching in it.

I think it's a bit tricky to find in the database (there's no obvious links), but I did find most of them. The ones I couldn't find are simulcast A & B. I guess I could try the FCC's site.... maybe if I can find some time.

 

[Phoenix805]

Is there a list of where these tower locations are?

If you're interested in a particular site like G (Glendale & west Valley) or C (Chandler area) let me know and I can try to find the link for you or even send you the addresses. It was fun to go to Google Maps, enter the address, then look for the towers. Some were obvious, some were hard to spot.

 

[chris480]

If you're interested in a particular site like G (Glendale & west Valley) or C (Chandler area) let me know and I can try to find the link for you or even send you the addresses. It was fun to go to Google Maps, enter the address, then look for the towers. Some were obvious, some were hard to spot.

Thanks! I started searching the FCC the other day from my phone and found the freqs and addresses. Im going to work on my PC later and cross reference them with the DB to find what freqs are for A and B and then google map them. I might try and do something in Visio or something and then I can post it so others can have it or so others can help verify.

 

[Arizona_Scanner]

Consider yourself lucky to live near enough to a site that things work well at home! My new home is an awful spot (though my office sits right below North Mountain where I enjoy 100% perfect reception at my desk). At my old home I could at least "game the system" with a yagi antenna. Now I am in a spot where no matter where I aim (toward Phoenix) the antenna has multiple sites in front of it. As you can imagine, I listen to a lot of MCSO, DPS, and Phoenix Fire (PFD is also broadcast from the White Tanks on top of simulcast b). Much to my surprise, with a good outdoor antenna listening to these things plus the helicopters, there is almost always something cool to listen to. I can also get simulcast g with my rooftop antenna without too much trouble. I have given up on simulcast a and b except when at work.

As far as driving around and picking up simulcast a or b....forget about it....it's not happening, no matter what scanner or antenna you use, and by the way, the 106 / 500 is the best scanner for simulcast digital so you have the right handheld for the job.

Good luck.