Sac City Fire B6 Patch No Longer Used?

[servo_fan]

Hi everyone, long time no see.

Tonight I was trying to listen to City Fire B6 after the dispatch of a structure fire, using the patch TGID of 47664. I never heard roll call, arrival, anything.

I came online and got the TGID for the "original" B6, and programmed in 59408. Almost immediately I heard traffic on the TGID.

Has anyone else noticed that the patch, which has been in use for years, is no longer patched?

Thanks,

Layne

 

[clanusb]

Honestly I haven't noticed. I programmed both of those channels in just to be safe. Then again at a quick glance the only difference is just the addition of a P on my alpha tag. "FIRE FT B6" and "FIRE FT B6 P" are the names of my two. I don't even recall why it had to get patched.

 

[Sac916]

Honestly I haven't noticed. I programmed both of those channels in just to be safe. Then again at a quick glance the only difference is just the addition of a P on my alpha tag. "FIRE FT B6" and "FIRE FT B6 P" are the names of my two. I don't even recall why it had to get patched.

B6 is still patched.
It was patched to deal with site affiliation issues.

FCOMA2 and FCOMA3 are still patched too.

 

[gmclam]

I have both TGs programmed for both sites. I noticed a call yesterday working on "B6 PATCH", but I didn't notice which site I was receiving from (I was driving).

 

[scannerboy02]

When talk groups are patched on the SRRCS what determines the TGID it will be received on by a scanner?

I have noticed that the FCOMA2(53232)/FCOMA3(53264) patch is not always picked up on the same TGID on the scanner, one day it will pick up on the FCOMA2(53232) TG and another day it will pick up on the FCOMA3(53264) TG.

The same is true for the FT B6 patch although traffic seems to be on the FT B6 patch TG(47664) more than on the FT B6(59408) TG.

 

[clanusb]

Im think it has to do with how the dispatcher selects the talk groups. I think the last one that they click on is the one that it displays. So they click on A2 and then A3 to broadcast and link both of them, A3 would show up. thats just my guess.

 

[Sac916]

Im think it has to do with how the dispatcher selects the talk groups. I think the last one that they click on is the one that it displays. So they click on A2 and then A3 to broadcast and link both of them, A3 would show up. thats just my guess.

The patches at Sac Reg fire are 24/7 365. Haven't changed in at least a couple years or more. It's not done each time they transmit either. Also, B6 is patched to an "unknown" TGID that is not even displayed on the consoles (even at the fire end) That patch is done at the technician level.

Another thing - If a patch is done at dispatch console #1 - it can only be undone at console #1 and not modified or undone by an adjacent console or another agency.

( I'm speaking of SRRCS, not TRS universally )

There are multiple ways for dispatcher to transmit like multi-select and patch. Also, one could transmit via portable if necessary in case of a headset or console malfunction. I know I keep a portable at the ready just in case, and have used it many times. The consoles are TX/RX via microwave so it will behave differently than when a dispatcher transmits via portable. Maybe a cause/reason - maybe not. Just educated guesses.

 

[Sac916]

Okay, I think I figured it out. It depends on what channel the mobile/portable radio is selected on.

During the patch, if the unit responds to the dispatcher with their radio on A3, the scanner will show A3. If the unit's radio is on A2 it will show A2 on the scanner.

The dispatcher's radio console does not appear to affect the behavior at all. This includes which Talk Group was patched first or second.

Yet one more thing to keep in mind, your scanner will not 'hear' a dispatcher's radio traffic if there are no mobile/portable radios affiliated to that talk group. This is why you rarely hear any dispatcher hails on the SMART channels. STAR and AIR do not normally key up on the SMART channel, they just monitor. Since nobody keys up on SMART channels in the field, you will not hear the dispatcher repeated hails for air support.

 

[scannerboy02]

First thank you for the info.

Okay, I think I figured it out. It depends on what channel the mobile/portable radio is selected on.

During the patch, if the unit responds to the dispatcher with their radio on A3, the scanner will show A3. If the unit's radio is on A2 it will show A2 on the scanner.

The dispatcher's radio console does not appear to affect the behavior at all. This includes which Talk Group was patched first or second.

I will need to pay closer attention to who's talking and on what TGID the scanner is on. It was my thinking that the change occurred every 24/48 hours and the scanner got the traffic on the same TGID the whole time. So one day it was on FCOMA2 all day and the next day it was on FCOMA3.

Do you happen to know if they still do the north and south of the river thing like it was back in the VHF command 4/command 5 days?

Also do some of the mobile/portable radios have the "unidentified" TG programed into them for FT B6?

Yet one more thing to keep in mind, your scanner will not 'hear' a dispatcher's radio traffic if there are no mobile/portable radios affiliated to that talk group. This is why you rarely hear any dispatcher hails on the SMART channels. STAR and AIR do not normally key up on the SMART channel, they just monitor. Since nobody keys up on SMART channels in the field, you will not hear the dispatcher repeated hails for air support.

This is why I have two radios (one on site 1 and one on site 2) scanning the system frequencies in conventional mode.

 

[clanusb]

Yes the units still split channels A2 (north of the river) and A3 (south of the river) Just incase for some reason they need to make the 2 channels separate again. They split the channels on the 4th of July, and for some select days here and there too. Command 4 and 5 are rarely used but in special events, such as the air show, and very large scale incidents such as the jackson fire in june 2008.

antfreq, ive been watching A2 and A3 ever since you said it depended on what tgid the unit was on. Ive seen northern units ( ie 21, 35, 25) end up on A3, and southern units end up on A2 at times, so I dont think it has to do with the field units radio.

I recall a thread a few years ago that talked about this issue, none of us could figure it out, and thus it was declared a mystery of how the trunktracker reverse searches the system for the tgid.

 

[scannerboy02]

Yes the units still split channels A2 (north of the river) and A3 (south of the river) Just incase for some reason they need to make the 2 channels separate again.

Good to know, thank you.

Command 4 and 5 are rarely used but in special events, such as the air show, and very large scale incidents such as the jackson fire in june 2008.

I was referring to back in the day when they were on the old VHF command 4 (154.325 north) and command 5 (154.430 south).

antfreq, ive been watching A2 and A3 ever since you said it depended on what tgid the unit was on. Ive seen northern units ( ie 21, 35, 25) end up on A3, and southern units end up on A2 at times, so I dont think it has to do with the field units radio.

I also noticed this today but ALL the traffic I was getting was on A3. I even put one radio on A2 site 1, one on A2 site 2, one on A3 site 1 and one on A3 site 2 and still got ALL traffic on A3 today.

 

[clanusb]

OH, okay. as you know, the old vhf channels are still around for redundancy incase of 800mhz failure.

im not sure how you have your scanner set up with the different sites.. I have mine programmed (BCT15) as: System = Sac County, Site = Sac County, I have all of the freqs programmed under that, then I have groups for A,C,D,T, SSD, EGPD, and Hospitals. Fire B is under Sac City system/site.

I wasnt aware of how to program the different sites..I'm going to assume that mine just goes to the closest site to the scanner...which should be on Bond road.

(sorry to get off topic there)