Sacramento Regional Radio Communications System

[sacscan]

Tonight I programmed the new system into my 396. I only put non-simulcast TGID's in the scanlists (Grant PD and Los Rios Community College District PD). I have the new system in ID Search mode on my 785. I listened to both sites on both scanners and noticed that the same talkgroup would appear on both sites simultaneously. For example, 56720 would show up on Site 001 on the 396, and Site 002 on the 785. This happened quite a bit in the few minutes I was listening.

 

[RolnCode3]

Those who are confused about why they're hearing talkgroups on both sites:

Either the talkgroup is being simulcast on both sites, OR

There is a radio affiliated with that talkgroup on each site. For those that are confused by this (because we here in Sacto have never had to deal with SmartZone before), it would be a good time to read the Wiki and the pages that Wayne keeps on his personal webspace about how Motorola trunking works. I don't have links to his pages, but I saw them recently.

it is very informative, and will answer some questions.

BTW, Anthony, we were told that our old Spectras will have to be replaced at some point, to be replaced by the MCS2000s you guys are using. Can't remember if it's the digital or the rebanding that they can't handle. Our MT2000s will supposedly live on (although they're all beat to hell)

*EDIT* Here are two pages from Wayne's personal site that discuss Mot trunking. There may be more, but that's what was in my browser history and I could easily find.

http://www.thebriarpatch.org/trunking/callprocess.html
http://www.thebriarpatch.org/trunking/system_types.html

 

[inigo88]

Hey guys. If this is a Smartzone TRS, then I believe the sites are linked (at least with Marin Emergency Radio Authority and San Mateo TRS here in the bay area - both digital smartzone systems). We have multiple MERA sites, and they're called "simulcast zones" because for any radio that affiliates to those satallite repeaters (and not the primary site), all the traffic on whatever talkgroup their radio is on will be relayed through that satallite repeater to them, and this happens selectively:

Say a mobile PD unit is driving, leaves the primary site's coverage, so their radio affiliates to the other site. Then their talkgroup becomes active on that site so they can still hear their channel. When they drive back out of that zone and their radio deaffiliates from that satallite repeater site and affiliates back to the primary site, the traffic on that talkgroup on the satillite site will disappear again. I'm willing to bet that you're hearing simulcasted traffic on both sites on talkgroups that have radios affiliated to both sites at that precise moment in time. When traffic goes away on one of them, maybe whoever was affiliated left wherever they were and are no longer affiliated to that site.

Run Unitrunker or mTrunker if you want to know for sure.

We lucked out here in Marin (relatively speaking because the TRS is ALL digital, necessitating a $500 scanner), because even though the county is going to have 4 sites, all the agencies that use the system will have at least one radio affiliated to the main site at any given time, so you can hear all the traffic in the whole system just through one site and lock the other three out (and unlock them as you roam around the county).

Someone taught me a trick with the Pro-96 a while back, that if you put the control channel (in MO mode) from one site in the desired bank, then put one or two conventional FM/AM/CT/DC channels sequentially after the control channel, then put the control channel for the SECOND site in (in MO mode) after the one or two conventional channels, you can scan both sites from one bank and hear all the traffic. It will take twice as long to scan the bank, but since both sites are from the same system the conventional channel spacers trick the scanner into looking at both control channels rather than just the first one (and ignoring the rest). So if you guys with Pro-96s wanted to try, you could put the CC for Site 001 in P000 (on the top left of the screen, bank 0 Ch 00). Then put two conventional channels in P001 and P002, then put the CC for site 002 in P003. If each site has alternate control channels put them in one after the other clumped by site and put a space between the clumps of site 1 and 2 freqs with the two conventional channels. Have I confused everyone yet?

I'm positive this works for a Motorola UHF Smartzone system but I've never tried it with 800 Mhz. I've heard that this doesn't work for Unidens, and you have to just make site 1 and site 2 two different systems and scan them both.

EDIT: Looks like Roln beat me to it.

 

[Sac916]

.

BTW, Anthony, we were told that our old Spectras will have to be replaced at some point, to be replaced by the MCS2000s you guys are using. Can't remember if it's the digital or the rebanding that they can't handle. Our MT2000s will supposedly live on (although they're all beat to hell)

Oh lame, no new toys..... hmmm I'm pretty sure it's the digital aspect that they won't handle.

 

[walt436]

I Have All The Radio Shack Pro 96 Scanners You Want For 435.00 No Tax Plus 10.00 Shipping. All Dated 12/05 And 1.4 I Am In Marin County Calif 22 Min North Of The Golden Gate Bridge

Are they still available???

 

[WayneH]

As a reminder, this thread is for discussion of the new Sac system and the transition from the two older systems. Please do not go off-topic on events or ask unrelated scanner questions. Considering this is a sticky I will enforce this strictly if it gets out of hand. Thanks for your cooperation.

-Wayne

 

[WayneH]

*EDIT* Here's the dump.tre file zipped up. I can't figure out how to use the reader, so I couldn't look at it myself.

I went over the data beginning to end and didn't see anything out of the ordinary. Next time you see the problem happen can you note the radio id displayed? Do you recall if it was the same one each time?

-Wayne

 

[RolnCode3]

I went over the data beginning to end and didn't see anything out of the ordinary. Next time you see the problem happen can you note the radio id displayed? Do you recall if it was the same one each time?

-Wayne

As I was reading this post, I looked over at the 785, and saw two different I-call IDs scroll past. One was 731147 (or something like that) and the other was 723383 (or something like that). Nothing on Treport or Unitrunker popped up.

Must just be the 785 doing something funky, although that doesn't happen with the other systems. Does anyone else have a scanner that shows I-call IDs on the screen? Anybody seeing anything?

A few other Treport things that are showing up are:

Rejection ASTRO
Earlier Req to AFF had no reply
System Req for radio to Affiliate
Send Affiliation Request

 

[RolnCode3]

Alright. Looks like my 785 is viewing Affiliations, deaffiliations, and some other commands as I-call data. I saw an I-call ID show up, and Treport showed it deaffiliate at the same exact time.

 

[servo_fan]

Here's some more talk groups and the site I heard them on, (for what it's worth). I apologize if others have already listed them. This thread is getting long and the new talkgroups are spaced all throughout it. Is there a place we could keep track of all the new talkgroups? (Besides the database I guess).

53360 - 002 - Fire A6
59408 - 002 - Fire B6
59440 - 001 - Fire B7
59472 - 001 - Fire B8
56304 - 002 - Kaiser North
56592 - 002 - Sutter General

 

[Sac916]

update:

Next week more SSD Talk Groups will be heard on the new system. SSD programming will be done by the first week of June.

 

[servo_fan]

Next week more SSD Talk Groups will be heard on the new system. SSD programming will be done by the first week of June.

If the SSD reprogramming will be done by the first week of June, does that mean that all the old talk groups will no longer be used after the first week of June, or that they will be simulcast for a while? Thanks.

 

[Sac916]

If the SSD reprogramming will be done by the first week of June, does that mean that all the old talk groups will no longer be used after the first week of June, or that they will be simulcast for a while? Thanks.

First week of June will be the cut off date. All radios are to be programmed by the cut off date. Radios that are not programmed will not be able to communicate on the new system.

I assume that is the point when the "patches" are removed. Hense, the inability to communicate on the "new" system.

SSD as are the other users of the system are being held to a very strict reprogramming schedule. SSD has 3,000 of the 12,000 radios roaming around out there.

BTW - Regional Fire SHOULD be done with their programming today.

 

[servo_fan]

I did just notice another Fire talkgroup, 53232, which I believe is A2, but I had previously heard what I though was A2 on 53264. I now think 53264 is Fire A3. Then it dawned on me, (probably a lot later than most of you ), that we can probably already figure out most of the remaining talk groups for Fire A and B, as well as Sac PD and SSD, (as long as they don't renumber their channels), if you just add or subtract 32 from a known talkgroup.

Since we already knew what talkgroup Fire A1 was using, (53200), just add 32 and you get A2, add 32 to that and you get A3, etc., all the way up to A16. Same goes for City Fire B1, (59248). Add 32 and you get 59280, which is B2, etc.

For SSD, A1 is 61552. If you add 32, you get 61584. I believe that that will be SSD A2. A3 should be 61616, etc.

For Sac PD, 60304 is Ch 1, so if you add 32, you get 60336, which I believe will be SPD Ch2, SPD Ch3 should be 60368, etc.

Does this make sense to those of you who know more technical details about how these kinds of systems work?

 

[sac-emt]

Metro Fire Re-programming

First week of June will be the cut off date. All radios are to be programmed by the cut off date. Radios that are not programmed will not be able to communicate on the new system.

I assume that is the point when the "patches" are removed. Hense, the inability to communicate on the "new" system.

SSD as are the other users of the system are being held to a very strict reprogramming schedule. SSD has 3,000 of the 12,000 radios roaming around out there.

BTW - Regional Fire SHOULD be done with their programming today.

Antfreq is correct - all radios on the Regional Fire system, be it on the apparatus/medics/other Safety staff vehicles, handhelds and the hospitals were scheduled to re-programmed by today's deadline. Been off on PTO since yesterday, so I have not heard of any changes.

 

[RolnCode3]

I did just notice another Fire talkgroup, 53232, which I believe is A2, but I had previously heard what I though was A2 on 53264. I now think 53264 is Fire A3. Then it dawned on me, (probably a lot later than most of you ), that we can probably already figure out most of the remaining talk groups for Fire A and B, as well as Sac PD and SSD, (as long as they don't renumber their channels), if you just add or subtract 32 from a known talkgroup.

Since we already knew what talkgroup Fire A1 was using, (53200), just add 32 and you get A2, add 32 to that and you get A3, etc., all the way up to A16. Same goes for City Fire B1, (59248). Add 32 and you get 59280, which is B2, etc.

For SSD, A1 is 61552. If you add 32, you get 61584. I believe that that will be SSD A2. A3 should be 61616, etc.

For Sac PD, 60304 is Ch 1, so if you add 32, you get 60336, which I believe will be SPD Ch2, SPD Ch3 should be 60368, etc.

Does this make sense to those of you who know more technical details about how these kinds of systems work?

You were being confused by Metro Fire because they were patching A2 and A3 together. You might pick up on either and hear the same traffic.

The seperation of 32 generally works, but I can't remember the reasoning. There will be totally new channels, so don't forget that. I've been told that CHPD and EGPD will be on completely new channels (just what I heard), so don't expect the new mapping to look exactly like the old.

 

[califzeph]

At what point will these new talk groups get put into the data base so we can re-program? I know, I'm lazy and need a nice list!

 

[kg6pix]

are the radios still available?

 

[benca]

Sac Metro Fire 53200 A1
Sac Metro Fire 53232 A2
Sac Metro Fire 53264 A3
Sac Metro Fire 53296 A4
Sac Metro Fire 53328 A5
Sac Metro Fire 53360 A6
Sac Metro Fire 53392 A7
Sac Metro Fire 53424 A8
Sac Metro Fire 53456 A9
Sac Metro Fire 53488 A10
Sac Metro Fire 53520 A11
Sac Metro Fire 53552 A12
Sac Metro Fire 53584 A13
Sac Metro Fire 53616 A14
Sac Metro Fire 53648 A15

 

[benca]

city fire b2 is 59280