San Angelo new P25 system

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KG5HHS

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Interesting! Any info on the new system? I've been away from the scanner for a while. Is the new system online for testing?
 

KG5HHS

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I just programmed the following into my BCD436HP (I'm not sure if this is the correct way).
A new P25 X2-TDMA System, Added the 3 following sites.
Site 1: 857.4625, 858.4625, 859.4625, 859.9375
Site 2: 854.9625, 855.2125, 855.7375, 855.9875
Site 3: 854.9625, 855.2125, 855.7375, 855.9875, 857.4625, 858.4625, 859.4625, 859.9375
Currently from my location I am only getting "DAT" on site 2. no voice or anything else. I also only have TGID 1 programmed in as I don't know what any of the new TGID's will be, but I do have "ID Search" mode on.
 

nd5y

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Doesn't the 436 have a system analyzing mode?
Can you hold on the control channels and view the WACN, System ID and NAC?
That information will be needed for database submission.

Since it's the same vendor that installed the system here last year, it could be the same people doing the same thing. You might get lucky on the talkgroups if they set it up the same way as they did here.

On the old EDACS system here the FD had 3 digit decimal talkgroup IDs and the PD had four digits.
On the new P25 system they just added 10 to the beginning of the 3 digit TGIDs and 1 to the four digit ones, so EDACS 784 = P25 10784 and EDACS 1041 = P25 11041.

They did something similar with the radio IDs.

Also at first there were several new talkgroups on the EDACS system that they had patched to the P25 system and did a lot of testing on then the talkgroups went silent after a couple months.
 

KG5HHS

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I just went into system status under analyze mode (Thanks for reminding me). Site 2 (Southland) is the only site that I was able to pick up.
System ID: 000Ah-010
Site ID: 0010
WACN: 924A3h
NAC: 14h
The "S" bar is moving up and down pretty quickly
The "Q" bar is up high and is not moving
The "A" bar has nothing showing.

I hope we will be lucky and have it set up that way. I read in the letter that they are doing an 8 channel 3 site "Simulcast" setup. Site 1 has 4 frequencies, Site 2 has another set of 4 frequencies, and site 3 has the 8 frequencies that site 1 & 2 have. I'm not familiar at all with simulcast. Can you explain to me how the sites will work. Will I be able to just program my scanner to the closest site like I have been or will I now have to deal with the simulcast headache I've seen on this site?
 

GTR8000

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A new P25 X2-TDMA System,
Don't use P25 X2-TDMA, that's only for a handful of existing older systems manufactured by Motorola that were already X2.

P25 Trunk is the correct system type for nearly all P25 systems, both FDMA (Phase I) and TDMA (Phase II).
 

KG5HHS

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Don't use P25 X2-TDMA, that's only for a handful of existing older systems manufactured by Motorola that were already X2.

P25 Trunk is the correct system type for nearly all P25 systems, both FDMA (Phase I) and TDMA (Phase II).
Ok, do I need to delete the "P25 X2-TDMA" system I have and create it under "P25 Trunk"?
 

GTR8000

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Yes, you have to redo it as P25 Trunk, since Uniden doesn't allow you to change system types once the system is created.
 

KG5HHS

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Well darn! I will do that when I get home. Is all the information I got on the analyze function correct or will I need redo that once I create the new system?
 

nd5y

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I'm not familiar at all with simulcast. Can you explain to me how the sites will work.
I don't know exactly what they are doing there.
This wiki article explains simulcasting. https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Simulcast
This article explains the P25 simulcast problem with scanners https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Simulcast_digital_distortion

You might have problems receiving depending on how far you are from the sites. If you are very close to one site and far enough from the others that they are much weaker then you might not have problems.
 

KG5HHS

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I don't know exactly what they are doing there.
This wiki article explains simulcasting. https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Simulcast
This article explains the P25 simulcast problem with scanners https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Simulcast_digital_distortion

You might have problems receiving depending on how far you are from the sites. If you are very close to one site and far enough from the others that they are much weaker then you might not have problems.
Thanks for the links. I'm still a little confused though. The EDACS system has 2 sites that broadcast the same traffic. I guess simulcast just means its broadcasts the radio traffic on the same frequency? I guess I will have to play with this to learn it as the system comes along. Anyway, I reprogrammed my scanner to "P25 Trunk" and got the same values on the system status information.
 

nd5y

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I guess simulcast just means its broadcasts the radio traffic on the same frequency?
Yes. Multiple sites with the same frequency (or frequencies) transmitting the same traffic at the same time.
I don't know how the EDACS system there is configured.
 

GTR8000

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I guess simulcast just means its broadcasts the radio traffic on the same frequency?
Yup, that's exactly what it is.

Multiple transmitters at different geographical locations, all transmitting the same signal on the same frequencies at the same time.

It takes very precise timing of the signals to make it seem like one seamless signal to the radios, but it's not exactly perfect, which is why scanners have trouble with simulcasts. Professional radios are able to compensate for the slight variation in signal being received from multiple transmitters. Scanners, not so much.

Each physical transmitter location in a simulcast is known as a "subsite", and all of those subsites together make up a simulcast cell, which looks like a single trunked site to receivers. So while you may have "Site 10", it may actually be comprised of two or five or ten or more subsites that are a simulcast cell, with the subsites often miles apart providing seamless roaming coverage across the entire area that the simulcast covers.
 

KG5HHS

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awesome, thanks for explaining guys. I've got the sites programmed as followed:
Site 1 (St. Ann) : 857.4625, 858.4625, 859.4625, 859.9375
Site 2 (Southland): 854.9625, 855.2125, 855.7375, 855.9875
Site 3 (Coliseum) : 854.9625, 855.2125, 855.7375, 855.9875, 857.4625, 858.4625, 859.4625, 859.9375
I am not able to pick up anything from site 1 or site 3. I have picked up radio traffic on TGID 43082 which is TGID 1082 on the EDACS system. I am getting ready to submit the information to the database but had a question about the sites. Do I need to submit them as they are above, which is how they are listed on the FCC license or do I need to just submit site 2? When I analyzed the system under site 2 i got "Site ID: 0010".

Also, I don't have TGID ID 1082 labeled but they were talking about mowing, would anybody know exactly what department does this?
 

GTR8000

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Only submit that which you've confirmed and/or you're able to determine is actually on the air.

The site numbers on the FCC licenses have nothing to do with the actual system site numbers, so ignore them. The only site number that matters is what you decode over the air. In this case, you have found Site 10, not "Site 2" (FCC)

System ID: 00A
WACN: 924A3
RFSS: 0 (or so it appears from the analyze results)
Site ID: 10
Site NAC: 014

Also make sure to specify which frequency is currently the control channel for that site.
 

KG5HHS

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ok, I just submitted the information. Also, I noted on my scanner that "PT0" & "PT1" show up when people talk on the new system.
 

KG5HHS

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Not sure if anyone in the area is able to pick up this site, but just wondering if anyone else not able to hear talk groups now.
 

hiegtx

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ok, I just submitted the information. Also, I noted on my scanner that "PT0" & "PT1" show up when people talk on the new system.
The PT0 and PT1 indicate which of the two slots are being used for P25 Phase II If you only see P25 on the screen, then that talkgroup is P25 Phase I. That could be intentional, or because a user affiliated with the talkgroup only has a Phase I capable radio.
 

n0xvz

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Not sure if anyone in the area is able to pick up this site, but just wondering if anyone else not able to hear talk groups now.
I programmed it into my scanner, but I don't expect my 396XT will hear anything. :) Actually, I'm not even sure I have it programmed correctly.
 
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