San Antonio, Bexar County site location and simulcast confusion/mess

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Firekite

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RR DB system link:


So this famous EDACS ProVoice mess of a system has some strange properties in the RR DB that makes it difficult for me to follow. I live in the area and have GPS enabled for my BCD436HP scanner with the ProVoice upgrade. It always seems like no matter where I am, it scans all sites, all departments, no matter what. I finally figured out why.

If you go to the details of each site, you'll see that ALL of the sites have the identical LAT/LONG info of 29.446773, -98.500671, next door to SAC just north of downtown and identical range of "25.862090382232 Miles". Google Maps link: 29°26'48.4"N 98°30'02.4"W

They're also covered by two different FCC licenses: WPTV889 for most, WPXE748 for the Hallmark site, and WNGU984 for the BLUE and GOLD Simulcast sites. But then if you look at WNGU984 the BLUE and GOLD Simulcast sites, you'll see a whole host of its own tower locations and frequencies, allegedly true simulcast.

What the heck is going on with all this? Because I was tired of ALL sites and departments showing up at ALL times, I thought I'd try my hand at plotting the locations of the towers and reducing their range so the overlap is relatively minimal when moving around the city, but that's when I stumbled across this mess I'm not trying to sort out.

Obviously the towers aren't literally in the same location, but was this done by someone on purpose?

Are the BLUE and GOLD Simulcast "sites" themselves truly simulcast, and if so why doesn't my 436HP seem to have difficulties picking them up?

I've started using Google Maps to sniff out the true locations of these towers and gathering them together. Would that info be at all useful for anyone?

For reference, if anyone wants to look at some of the circles I've been drawing, you can reference this URL:

 

Firekite

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As @ApexMark astutely pointed out elsewhere, the CSV download for this system is all jacked up, too. The actual data starts with a comma for some reason, which throws off all the column data.
Code:
Site Dec,Site Hex,Description,County Name,Lat,Lon,Range,Frequencies
,013,D,Cagnon,Bexar,29.446773,-98.500671,25.862090382232,853.812500,...

Here's his post with a screenshot showing the error, too:

 

rattlerbb01

TX/LA Database Admin
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I’ve noticed this too but I thought it was because the range was set too far on my scanner and never really dug into it. I’ll take a look at it and see what needs to be done.
 

Dark_Side

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Messages
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Tower for San antonio Provoice System
------------------------------------
EDACS Site-0021 City Siml BLUE (BLU)
Esk Key: Hex A0 Decmal 160
21 (Blue)-Color Access is Blue
Callsign: WPMD641 AND WPTV646
Total Channels=19 CHANNELS Co-Located Sites
site-01 /tower Locations:
1.Company: City of San Antonio - Radio Maintenance
Location: San Antonio,TX
Registration ID / Type: 1223932 / TOWER
Latitude: 29.4218 (29D 25M 18S N)
Longitude: 98.4971 (98D 29M 49S W)
Directions: San Antonio Police Headquarters, St. Marys & West Houston
FURGUSON MAP: 616 E5
Elevation/Height: 196.1 / 152.4 meters, 643 / 500 feet
2.Company: City of San Antonio - Radio Maintenance
Location: San Antonio,TX
Registration ID / Type: 1223934 / TOWER
Latitude: 29.4788 (29D 28M 43S N)
Longitude: 98.5867 (98D 35M 12S W)
Directions: CPS Broadview: 5203 Callaghan & Evers Road
FURGUSON MAP: 580 E5
Elevation/Height: 248.1 / 129.5 meters, 814 / 424 feet
3.Company: City of San Antonio - Radio Maintenance
Location: San Antonio,TX
Registration ID / Type: 1226639 / TOWER
Latitude: 29.4863 (29D 29M 10S N)
Longitude: 98.4511 (98D 27M 3S W)
Directions: 1051B Austin Hwy
FURGUSON MAP: 583 D4
Elevation/Height: 245.7 / 68.3 meters, 806 / 224 feet
4.Company: City of San Antonio
Location: San Antonio,TX
Registration ID / Type: 1203276 / TOWER
Latitude: 29.3868 (29D 23M 12S N)
Longitude: 98.4365 (98D 26M 11S W)
Directions: 2000 Amanda Street
FURGUSON MAP: 651 F2
Elevation/Height: 208.8 / 126.2 meters, 685 / 414 feet
5.Company: KSAT-12
Location: SAN ANTONIO,TX
Registration ID / Type: #/ TOWER
Latitude: 29.------(29D 26M 12S N)
Longitude: 98.----- (98D 29M 02S W)
Directions: 1408 N ST MARYS STREET
FURGUSON MAP: 616 F3
DISTRICT OF TWR: SAPD DOC: 2110
Site: GOLD
Call sign: WNGU984
This Site Replaced 326 W JONES AVE
6.Company: City of San Antonio - Radio Maintenance
Location: San Antonio,TX
Registration ID / Type: 1223931 / TOWER
Latitude: 29.3783 (29D 22M 41S N)
Longitude: 98.5372 (98D 32M 14S W)
Directions: Fire Training Academy, 4531 Zarzamora & Centennial Avenue
FURGUSON MAP: 649 F3
Elevation/Height: 199.9 / 96.3 meters, 655 / 315 feet
------------------------------------
EDACS Site-0022 GOLD County Siml (GLD)
Esk Key: Hex A0 Decmal 160
22 (Gold)-Color Access is Color Green
Total Channels=19 CHANNELS Co-Located Sites
Callsign: WNGU984
All site/tower Locations:
1.Company: City of San Antonio - Radio Maintenance
Location: San Antonio,TX
Registration ID / Type: 1223932 / TOWER
Latitude: 29.4218 (29D 25M 18S N)
Longitude: 98.4971 (98D 29M 49S W)
Directions: San Antonio Police Headquarters, St. Marys & West Houston
FURGUSON MAP: 616 E5
Elevation/Height: 196.1 / 152.4 meters, 643 / 500 feet
2.Company: City of San Antonio - Radio Maintenance
Location: San Antonio,TX
Registration ID / Type: 1223934 / TOWER
Latitude: 29.4788 (29D 28M 43S N)
Longitude: 98.5867 (98D 35M 12S W)
Directions: CPS Broadview: 5203 Callaghan & Evers Road
FURGUSON MAP: 580 E5
Elevation/Height: 248.1 / 129.5 meters, 814 / 424 feet
3.Company: City of San Antonio - Radio Maintenance
Location: San Antonio,TX
Registration ID / Type: 1226639 / TOWER
Latitude: 29.4863 (29D 29M 10S N)
Longitude: 98.4511 (98D 27M 3S W)
Directions: 1051B Austin Hwy
FURGUSON MAP: 583 D4
Elevation/Height: 245.7 / 68.3 meters, 806 / 224 feet
4.Company: City of San Antonio
Location: San Antonio,TX
Registration ID / Type: 1203276 / TOWER
Latitude: 29.3868 (29D 23M 12S N)
Longitude: 98.4365 (98D 26M 11S W)
Directions: 2000 Amanda Street
FURGUSON MAP: 651 F2
Elevation/Height: 208.8 / 126.2 meters, 685 / 414 feet
5.Company: KSAT-12
Location: SAN ANTONIO,TX
Registration ID / Type: #/ TOWER
Latitude: 29.------(29D 26M 12S N)
Longitude: 98.----- (98D 29M 02S W)
Directions: 1408 N ST MARYS STREET
FURGUSON MAP: 616 F3
DISTRICT OF TWR: SAPD DOC: 2110
Site: GOLD
Call sign: WNGU984
This Site Replaced 326 W JONES AVE
6.Company: City of San Antonio - Radio Maintenance
Location: San Antonio,TX
Registration ID / Type: 1223931 / TOWER
Latitude: 29.3783 (29D 22M 41S N)
Longitude: 98.5372 (98D 32M 14S W)
Directions: Fire Training Academy, 4531 Zarzamora & Centennial Avenue
FURGUSON MAP: 649 F3
Elevation/Height: 199.9 / 96.3 meters, 655 / 315 feet

------------------------------------
EDACS Site-0013 Far West Satx (CAGNON)
Esk Key: Hex A0 Decmal 160
13 (CAG)-Color Access is Aqua
Total Channels=8 Level-1 Site
New Total Channels=12 Level-1 Site
CALL SIGN: YF WPTV899/YP WPTW791
Company: City of San Antonio - Radio Maintenance
Location: San Antonio,TX
Registration ID / Type: 1223933 / TOWER
Latitude: 29D 25M 0.8S N
Longitude: 98D 43M 16S W
Directions: 1.3 Miles SSW of Intersection of Loop 1604 & FM 1957
11000 POTRANCO/ 400 N LOOP 1604 W
FURGUSON MAP: 612 A3
Elevation/Height: 260.3 / 128.0 meters, 854 / 419 feet
------------------------------------
EDACS Site-0014 Far NW Bexar (Grey Forest)
14 (GRY)-Color Access is Red
Esk Key: Hex A0 Decmal 160
Total Channels=8 Level-1 Site
New Total Channels=12 Level-1 Site
CALL SIGN: YF WPTV899/YP WPTW791
Company: City Public Service
Location: SAN ANTONIO,TX
Registration ID / Type: 1049317 / TOWER
Latitude: 29.6336 (29D 38M 1S N)
Longitude: 98.6303 (98D 37M 49S W)
Directions: 7439 HEUERMANN RD
FURGUSON MAP: 479 E7
Elevation/Height: 440.4 / 74.7 meters, 1444 / 245 feet

------------------------------------
EDACS Site-0015 NW SATX (Hill Country)
Esk Key: Hex A0 Decmal 160
15 (HIL)-Color Access is Purple
Total Channels=8 Level-1 Site
New Total Channels=13 Level-1 Site
CALL SIGN: YF WPTV899/YP WPTW791
Company: City Public Service
Location: SAN ANTONIO,TX
Registration ID / Type: 1049301 / TOWER
Latitude: 29.6219 (29D 37M 19S N)
Longitude: 98.5706 (98D 34M 14S W)
Directions: 19382 NW MILITARY HWY
FURGUSON MAP: 481 A8
Elevation/Height: 338.3 / 134.1 , 1109 / 439 feet
------------------------------------
EDACS Site-0016 Far N Bexar (S.Breeze)
Esk Key: Hex A0 Decmal 160
16 (AMT)-Color Access is Yellow
Total Channels=8 Level-1 Site
New Total Channels=10 Level-1 Site
CALL SIGN: YF WPTV899/YP WPTW791
Company: AMERICAN TOWER
Location: SAN ANTONIO,TX
Registration ID / Type: 1008663 /Tower
Latitude: 29D 39M 44S N
Longitude: 98D 27M 06S W
Directions: LOC: 23706 SOUTH BREEZE
FURGUSON MAP: 482 D2
Ground Elevation/Height Structure: 355.7 / 100.6
DISTRICT OF TWR: BEXAR CO SHERIFFS DOC: BCSO Dist 31
------------------------------------
EDACS Site-0017 NE Satx (Toepperwein)
Esk Key: Hex A0 Decmal 160
17 (TOP)-Color Access is White
Total Channels=8 Level-1 Site
New Total Channels=11 Level-1 Site
CALL SIGN: YF WPTV899/YP WPTW791
Company: City Public Service
Location: SAN ANTONIO,TX
Registration ID / Type: 1049299 / TOWER
Latitude: 29D 32M 54S N
Longitude: 98D 20M 34S W
Directions: 11890 Toepperwein
FURGUSON MAP: 553 F3
Elevation/Height: 275.8 / 83.8 meters, 904 / 275.8 feet
------------------------------------
EDACS SITE-0018 Far S Bexar (Hallmark)
Esk Key: Hex A0 Decmal 160
18 (HM)-Color Access is -White-
Total Channels=5 Level-1 Site
CALL SIGN: WPXE748 (YF)
Company:
Location: SAN ANTONIO,TX 78283
Registration ID / Type: 1047171 / TOWER
Latitude: 29 11 3.8 N
Longitude: 98 30 50 W
Directions: 23002 HALLMARK RD (Hallmark Path)
FURGUSON MAP: 750 C8
Ground Elevation/Height Structure: 204.2 / 295.4
 

KI5IRE

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Messages
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A little bit off topic, but what all layers/sites does San Antonio public safety and Bexar County public safety operate on/can be heard on?
 

rattlerbb01

TX/LA Database Admin
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Messages
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Location
Boerne, Texas
I updated all the site coordinates and ranges, also some callsigns and notes for each site. Hopefully that works better for your location based scanners.
 

rattlerbb01

TX/LA Database Admin
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Location
Boerne, Texas
A little bit off topic, but what all layers/sites does San Antonio public safety and Bexar County public safety operate on/can be heard on?

You will find SAPD on the Blue Simulcast primarily, but they also appear on the outlying sites as well. You will probably not ever hear them on Gold Simulcast though.

Everyone else is on the Gold Simulcast for primary ops and the outlying sites when roaming out of the simulcast footprint.
 

Sanscanman

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Messages
319
Location
Acworth, GA
Actually SAPD East and South Ptl appear on gold quite often as overflow. also anytime an officer hits his emergency activation button, it will open on gold as well until the activation is cleared at the console.
 

Firekite

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Messages
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It still seems odd to me that the simulcast systems are listed as a single site, but it seems like they’re their own system, and maybe an actual simulcast system with its own sites? I really wish I knew what was going on :)
 
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