-
Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.
We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.
If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html
San Antonio traffic
- Thread starter djgrial
- Start date
- Status
you could try metro traffic control, I believe they still use 450.0875. you will only hear them during the Rush hour times. you could also look at the LTR stes for Umm I think it is Industrial communications. the Same site that handles AMR also has a talk group 02-166 which belongs to WOAI, they have a roving guy that is monitoring traffic and reporting back to thier base.
you could also try Texas towing as well, they still have the city contract and that would be a decent tip off of a area to avoid.
aside from that, I am not sure who ese to suggest. the City is not a viable option as they are Pro Voice Digital..
Hope this helps.
you could also try Texas towing as well, they still have the city contract and that would be a decent tip off of a area to avoid.
aside from that, I am not sure who ese to suggest. the City is not a viable option as they are Pro Voice Digital..
Hope this helps.
muddy mudskipper
Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2000
- Messages
- 232
San Antonio needs to take a serious leap forward in their radio communications for the GREATER GOOD of the community.
Enough of this bull**** paranoia that permeates the radio community!
With the help of Federal Funding after 9/11, the City of San Antonio migrates to a highly proprietary radio system so "no one can hear" them.
The largest contract towing service in town, Texas Towing, is now migrating to an LTR Passport system so "no one can hear" them.
News agencies in town have left behind the old UHF radio frequencies and gone mostly to cellphones so "no one can hear" them.
Small towns and incoporated cities that dot Bexar County are also looking to move "up" to Provoice communications for a variety of paranoid reasons.
What the hell ever happened to COMMUNITY? Or has that fallen victim to technology in our race to keep the private private and the public, well, unlistenable?
So to answer your question, djgrial, you will just have to use your EYES and EARS to know what the traffic conditions are like from day to day.
Enough of this bull**** paranoia that permeates the radio community!
With the help of Federal Funding after 9/11, the City of San Antonio migrates to a highly proprietary radio system so "no one can hear" them.
The largest contract towing service in town, Texas Towing, is now migrating to an LTR Passport system so "no one can hear" them.
News agencies in town have left behind the old UHF radio frequencies and gone mostly to cellphones so "no one can hear" them.
Small towns and incoporated cities that dot Bexar County are also looking to move "up" to Provoice communications for a variety of paranoid reasons.
What the hell ever happened to COMMUNITY? Or has that fallen victim to technology in our race to keep the private private and the public, well, unlistenable?
So to answer your question, djgrial, you will just have to use your EYES and EARS to know what the traffic conditions are like from day to day.
Last edited:
n4voxgill
Silent Key
I listen to WOAI 1200 on the AM dial. They give regular traffic reports.
muddy mudskipper
Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2000
- Messages
- 232
very funny.n4voxgill said:
: )
precoislen
Member
Is it actually paranoid reasoning, or is it maybe more of the fact that in order for the smaller outlying areas to be in the know and have interoperability they are having to migrate to the ProVoice system?muddy mudskipper said:
Having played w/ and used the EDACS radios, I can tell you that they have done us no great favors for the volunteer county agencies by having this system, and the Jaguars are pure junk. I personally will still be toting a VHF portable w/ me on every scene, just in case.
mike_webb59
Member
As far as monitoring City and County Services it's encrypted. You can still get most of the suburbs with a Trunking Scanner or Conventional frequencies; Bexar County Fire & Rescue still dispatches to area agencies over conventional frequencies. Those frequencies are in this RR Database. There are few news agencies on some of the commercial LTR systems.djgrial said:
I don't seem to pick up a whole lot of chatter on the MDOT frequencies and that would be valuable as far as traffic.
Even worse, it seems that DPS has gone digital in this area as well.
precoislen
Member
How intuitive.....Cowthief said:
While some of the statements are partially true, it might pay to get all your facts straight before posting......
Bexar county fire and EMS.
Hello.
I have checked the facts.
Bexar county switched everything over to the ProVoice just a few months ago, it was a total failure.
The trouble is as much one of policy as of cost.
The vollies carry pagers and or radios but normally have a regular job somewhere.
Bexar county plan was to dispatch the leader of whatever company who would in turn dispatch the rest of the vollies, great if the person in question is always by the radio and a telephone or another radio.
Needless to say, it does not work.
The other trouble is that VHF has better coverage by far over 800 MHz, ProVoice or not.
The next issue is one of the Emergency Medical Service.
This is done under contract with a company called American Medical Response.
AMR is under contract, and works directly with, several MD and PA offices at the several hospitals in and around the city.
The doctors have VHF radios on the MED channels.
Due to a supreme court ruling, the medical community has complete control over this type of radio system, so there will not be any change to the MED channels,
http://www.reliefweb.int/telecoms/intro/VHF-UHF.doc.html
Again, this is INTERNATIONAL law, The FCC can not allow 800 MHz for this type of traffic.
So, with this in mind, Bexar county tried to equip the 2 airlife helicopters with ProVoice 800 MHz radios, not FAA TSOed mind you, explaining that this was the new requirements.
There is something called "downtilt" built into 800 MHz antennas, this prevents good coverage from the air.
Both Bexar county and San Antonio went to the feds trying to find a fix.
The two $ 10,000 fines that were levied put a stop to the agressive trunking plans.
There was a very complete write-up of this in the Express-News newspaper.
Hello.
I have checked the facts.
Bexar county switched everything over to the ProVoice just a few months ago, it was a total failure.
The trouble is as much one of policy as of cost.
The vollies carry pagers and or radios but normally have a regular job somewhere.
Bexar county plan was to dispatch the leader of whatever company who would in turn dispatch the rest of the vollies, great if the person in question is always by the radio and a telephone or another radio.
Needless to say, it does not work.
The other trouble is that VHF has better coverage by far over 800 MHz, ProVoice or not.
The next issue is one of the Emergency Medical Service.
This is done under contract with a company called American Medical Response.
AMR is under contract, and works directly with, several MD and PA offices at the several hospitals in and around the city.
The doctors have VHF radios on the MED channels.
Due to a supreme court ruling, the medical community has complete control over this type of radio system, so there will not be any change to the MED channels,
http://www.reliefweb.int/telecoms/intro/VHF-UHF.doc.html
Again, this is INTERNATIONAL law, The FCC can not allow 800 MHz for this type of traffic.
So, with this in mind, Bexar county tried to equip the 2 airlife helicopters with ProVoice 800 MHz radios, not FAA TSOed mind you, explaining that this was the new requirements.
There is something called "downtilt" built into 800 MHz antennas, this prevents good coverage from the air.
Both Bexar county and San Antonio went to the feds trying to find a fix.
The two $ 10,000 fines that were levied put a stop to the agressive trunking plans.
There was a very complete write-up of this in the Express-News newspaper.
precoislen
Member
"Bexar county plan was to dispatch the leader of whatever company who would in turn dispatch the rest of the vollies, great if the person in question is always by the radio and a telephone or another radio.
Needless to say, it does not work."
That is interesting. BCFA has not officially issued the procedures on the use of the EDACS radio to the county fire stations yet. For the ones that have them in use right now, it is business as usual. Normal dispatching over the legacy VHF system, and TAC1 & TAC3 are tapped into the dispatch consoles. Whether usage is done by the VHF portables or the 800 mghz portables.
Not all departments have been issued 800 mghz radios yet. It is forthcoming, but the number of county departments that have them right now can be counted on one hand.
"The other trouble is that VHF has better coverage by far over 800 MHz, ProVoice or not."
That pretty much goes with out saying.
"The next issue is one of the Emergency Medical Service.
This is done under contract with a company called American Medical Response.
AMR is under contract, and works directly with, several MD and PA offices at the several hospitals in and around the city."
AMR is not the only contract provider of EMS services in Bexar County. Americana & SAEMS still provide services to very limited portions of the county.
"The doctors have VHF radios on the MED channels."
Which hospitals and agencies are using the VHF MED channels? I have personally heard no radio traffic on either VHF or UHF med channels in a long, long time.
The last time I checked AMR is communicating with Med-Control and recieving ED/ER's via cellphone to give patient reports.
I believe SAEMS has a comprehensive hospital set of TG's, but I am not a user of that particular system so I can't comment on whether they actually use it or not.
"So, with this in mind, Bexar county tried to equip the 2 airlife helicopters with ProVoice 800 MHz radios, not FAA TSOed mind you, explaining that this was the new requirements.
There is something called "downtilt" built into 800 MHz antennas, this prevents good coverage from the air.
Both Bexar county and San Antonio went to the feds trying to find a fix."
Just to clarify, Airlife has three 3 "Blades" and 1 "Wing" in the fleet. Three helicopters and 1 fixed wing. Not 2 as you just stated.
Can't comment on the downtilt thing or FAA rulings, but again SAFD and SAEMS have TG's on the EDACS system for use w/ Airlife. Again, not being a user of that system, I can't comment on whether it is in use or not.
-Some of this stuff is very old hat that you have posted, and the other stuff isn't completely factual. Close but no cigar.
Needless to say, it does not work."
That is interesting. BCFA has not officially issued the procedures on the use of the EDACS radio to the county fire stations yet. For the ones that have them in use right now, it is business as usual. Normal dispatching over the legacy VHF system, and TAC1 & TAC3 are tapped into the dispatch consoles. Whether usage is done by the VHF portables or the 800 mghz portables.
Not all departments have been issued 800 mghz radios yet. It is forthcoming, but the number of county departments that have them right now can be counted on one hand.
"The other trouble is that VHF has better coverage by far over 800 MHz, ProVoice or not."
That pretty much goes with out saying.
"The next issue is one of the Emergency Medical Service.
This is done under contract with a company called American Medical Response.
AMR is under contract, and works directly with, several MD and PA offices at the several hospitals in and around the city."
AMR is not the only contract provider of EMS services in Bexar County. Americana & SAEMS still provide services to very limited portions of the county.
"The doctors have VHF radios on the MED channels."
Which hospitals and agencies are using the VHF MED channels? I have personally heard no radio traffic on either VHF or UHF med channels in a long, long time.
The last time I checked AMR is communicating with Med-Control and recieving ED/ER's via cellphone to give patient reports.
I believe SAEMS has a comprehensive hospital set of TG's, but I am not a user of that particular system so I can't comment on whether they actually use it or not.
"So, with this in mind, Bexar county tried to equip the 2 airlife helicopters with ProVoice 800 MHz radios, not FAA TSOed mind you, explaining that this was the new requirements.
There is something called "downtilt" built into 800 MHz antennas, this prevents good coverage from the air.
Both Bexar county and San Antonio went to the feds trying to find a fix."
Just to clarify, Airlife has three 3 "Blades" and 1 "Wing" in the fleet. Three helicopters and 1 fixed wing. Not 2 as you just stated.
Can't comment on the downtilt thing or FAA rulings, but again SAFD and SAEMS have TG's on the EDACS system for use w/ Airlife. Again, not being a user of that system, I can't comment on whether it is in use or not.
-Some of this stuff is very old hat that you have posted, and the other stuff isn't completely factual. Close but no cigar.
otter9309
Member
WRONG......
Lots of speculation going on here, and poor facts from media outlets.
Lots of speculation going on here, and poor facts from media outlets.
muddy mudskipper
Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2000
- Messages
- 232
hey cowthief, are you the cowthief from Houston that used to post here?
good info, but as precoisen mentions we don't really know WHAT is accurate. there are probably a handful of working people in san antonio that still monitor the public safety radio system, but ESK has made that a little more difficult.
oh yeah, someone was repeating SO Info on 463.2500 this weekend.
good info, but as precoisen mentions we don't really know WHAT is accurate. there are probably a handful of working people in san antonio that still monitor the public safety radio system, but ESK has made that a little more difficult.
oh yeah, someone was repeating SO Info on 463.2500 this weekend.
Airlife.
Hello.
The "biofone" that is in the airlife 'copters is UHF,just look at the antenna.
The media outlets had it right from the beginning, 800 MHz, including cell phones, work poorly if at all in aircraft, the downtilt thing.
However, the discone antenna, like what is atop the medical center hospital, or the baptist, or VA, have a very high angle of radiation, so much so that there really is no ground signal.
The doctors exchange transmits from the same near downtown tower it always has but the offices have moved from the 900 block of san pedro to the medical center.
The other trouble with 800 MHz is the fact that TACAN is on the top end of 900 MHz to 1 GHz, running several hundred watts in pulse mode.
The transponders run 1030 MHz and 1090 MHz at nearly a Kw.
The radios that are approved, and connected to the audio panel, for medical use, are the wulfsberg flitefone.
The biofone is actually a portable unit, it can connect to an external antenna and power, all TSOed, but is really just a talkie with an analog MODEM in a big box.
Hello.
The "biofone" that is in the airlife 'copters is UHF,just look at the antenna.
The media outlets had it right from the beginning, 800 MHz, including cell phones, work poorly if at all in aircraft, the downtilt thing.
However, the discone antenna, like what is atop the medical center hospital, or the baptist, or VA, have a very high angle of radiation, so much so that there really is no ground signal.
The doctors exchange transmits from the same near downtown tower it always has but the offices have moved from the 900 block of san pedro to the medical center.
The other trouble with 800 MHz is the fact that TACAN is on the top end of 900 MHz to 1 GHz, running several hundred watts in pulse mode.
The transponders run 1030 MHz and 1090 MHz at nearly a Kw.
The radios that are approved, and connected to the audio panel, for medical use, are the wulfsberg flitefone.
The biofone is actually a portable unit, it can connect to an external antenna and power, all TSOed, but is really just a talkie with an analog MODEM in a big box.
freqscout
Member
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2006
- Messages
- 698
ProVoice Handhelds:
Jaguars are not very good at audio reproduction but the newer 7100 IP's are much better.
The decode and encode are very accurate in comparison and have a more decent audio frequency range..so if someone is looking to purchase a HH that might be worth saving the extra bucks for..granted it might take a while to save the difference.
Jaguars are not very good at audio reproduction but the newer 7100 IP's are much better.
The decode and encode are very accurate in comparison and have a more decent audio frequency range..so if someone is looking to purchase a HH that might be worth saving the extra bucks for..granted it might take a while to save the difference.
scanfan03
Member
Memorial Hermann Lifeflight down here in Houston does fine useing STAR-Net. They get good coverage, so I don't know what's wrong with your 800MHz antenna or radio....Cowthief said:
As I read through all the above postes, as mentioned, there is a LOT of speculcation here. I have seen some misrepresentation also.
True, a VHF signal carries further than an 800 signal, however, coverage depends on tower, design, and terrain. There are parts of my county (Caldwell) where the 800 system covers better than VHF and vise versa. I'll also note that both are on the same tower at the same height.Cowthief said:
I'm not sure where and what that link you provided is referring to, but I can assure you it is not Texas. We are governed by the FCC, not some international law. The frequencies listed are not even close to the interoperable MED channels, VHF or UHF. Look Here at the FCC approved Texas State Interoperability channel plan. What exactly do you mean by "the FCC can not allow 800 MHZ for this type of traffic." If you are talking about pt reports over 800 MHz, The Austin/Travis County 800 MHz radio system uses specific talkgroups for each hospital. Pt reports are given from the ambulance to the hospital via those talkgroups.Cowthief said:
Where did you find this information? If a system is designed for this, it was a because the customer requested it that way. My system (Caldwell County), Williamson County, and the Austin/Travis Co system all have great coverage from the air. In fact, the Austin/Travis Co System has a talkgroup designated as "STARflight out of county" which is exactly as it labled. This is their out of county mutual aid talkgroup on the system for the STARflight helicopter.Cowthief said:
Cowthief's opinion would surprise the Memorial Herman hospital system, along with LifeFlight in the Houston/Galveston area, since the primary radio system used for LifeFlight (dispatching as well as patient reports) is the 800 MHz STARNet system. They (Memorial Herman) also use the Aircraft Band (128.850) for receiving information from other air ambulance services coming into Herman. LifeFlight only uses those VHF/UHF interop and MED channels to contact ground units at landing zones.
As to VHF distance vs 800 MHz distance, well due to the wave lengths involved they have different characteristics. VHF will carry further over a set distance for equal ERP; however, 800 MHz has more "penetrating" power (in other words it gets into buildings and around corners) than VHF, which is why it is used more in Urban settings. The San Antonio metro area is certainly urban enough to justify a 800 MHz system. As to the selection of vendor, well...
As to VHF distance vs 800 MHz distance, well due to the wave lengths involved they have different characteristics. VHF will carry further over a set distance for equal ERP; however, 800 MHz has more "penetrating" power (in other words it gets into buildings and around corners) than VHF, which is why it is used more in Urban settings. The San Antonio metro area is certainly urban enough to justify a 800 MHz system. As to the selection of vendor, well...
mike_webb59
Member
Okay, I digress from the current topic and I'm back on SA Traffic.
There's been some talk on the VCALL conventional Talkaround recently. All I know is that the unit doesn't have a MDT and works a lot of traffic. My uninformed opinion was that it was DPS calling local agencies, but then this happened. Last night he got into a "chase" with a car with Mexico tags (in Mexico, police drive with lights on all the time due to the #$%^&*ing traffic). Chase started on Blanco North and ended on Wurzbach Parkway, all of two minutes. Unit involved used call sign "412" and supporting units used "901" and "902."
Any ideas?
There's been some talk on the VCALL conventional Talkaround recently. All I know is that the unit doesn't have a MDT and works a lot of traffic. My uninformed opinion was that it was DPS calling local agencies, but then this happened. Last night he got into a "chase" with a car with Mexico tags (in Mexico, police drive with lights on all the time due to the #$%^&*ing traffic). Chase started on Blanco North and ended on Wurzbach Parkway, all of two minutes. Unit involved used call sign "412" and supporting units used "901" and "902."
Any ideas?
- Status