San Francisco Public Safety going Digital June 2021

[nokoa3116]

I ran a system discovery for a little bit while driving through SF on July 6th. Here is some of the information collected.
Link is for a zip of the Uniden Discovery results, including some sound files.

0_RUN0009.zip

drive.google.com

RunInfo_T    37.350212    -122.034857    10.0    2    All    On    30    SF-P25    San Francisco County/City P25        P25Standard        City 800 MHz Simulcast    0    Off    0
Summary_T_Log    4085    DIGITAL    30    14        1    0
Summary_T_Log    929    DIGITAL    30    38        1    0
Summary_T_Log    1603    DIGITAL    30    28        1    0
Summary_T_Log    1063    DIGITAL    30    30        1    0
Summary_T_Log    4083    DIGITAL    30    46        1    0
Summary_T_Log    851    DIGITAL    30    25        1    0
Summary_T_Log    959    DIGITAL    30    80        1    0
Summary_T_Log    3127    DIGITAL    30    7        1    0
Summary_T_Log    959    ENCRYPTED    15    3        0    0
Summary_T_Log    3125    DIGITAL    12    4        0    0
Summary_T_Log    4041    DIGITAL    5    2        0    0
Summary_T_Log    925    DIGITAL    30    9        1    0
Summary_T_Log    4083    ENCRYPTED    3    1        0    0
Summary_T_Log    1063    ENCRYPTED    2    1        0    0
Summary_T_Log    3129    DIGITAL    12    4        0    0
Summary_T_Log    1571    DIGITAL    2    1        0    0

 

[officer_415]

Saw some encrypted traffic on TG 814 this morning, probably SFPD.

 

[KD6JEK]

Do you mean TG 824?

 

[officer_415]

No.

 

[officer_415]

As of about 0758 this morning, encryption is now active on some SFPD TGs. Encrypted TGs include 808, 810, 812 and 816. My logs show 824 and 826 as active in the wee hours, but I haven't verified that those transmissions were encrypted. 808 corresponds to A3, 810 to A4, 812 to A5, and 816 to A7 — for now, these channels are also being simulcast on the old analog system as the transition moves forward.

Are 824, 826, and 828 possibly the encrypted versions of A11, A12, and A13?

 

[footage]

That's what my monitoring suggests. I've heard transmissions on these analog TGs at the same time as on the digital. There are some exceptions to the pattern (new TGs in some agency clusters) but yours would be a safe bet.

Did anyone else notice the system seems to be down since yesterday, or is my P25RX out of kilter?

 

[officer_415]

I was monitoring yesterday morning for a while. The only LE talkgroups active were 814 and 1018.

 

[footage]

It's back in full.

 

[officer_415]

Monitored for a little while today and didn't see any PD talkgroups, but the automated fire dispatch talkgroup (60102) is back.

 

[footage]

Monitored for a little while today and didn't see any PD talkgroups, but the automated fire dispatch talkgroup (60102) is back.

PD is active some evenings and weekends. All TGs encrypted. The odd-numbered TGs that we think will be in the clear have not been tested lately.

 

[Eng74]

I was in the city for a little while on the 13th, had to go to Molinari’s to get some stuff for the tailgate. Had the SDS-100 scanning SFD on the new system and the 436 on the old system. They use a very loud and annoying alert on one of the new channels. Also different a male voice for the automated dispatch.

 

[KD6JEK]

I love Molinari’s… I’m curious. Were you able to scan the new system on the 436 or just the SDS-100? Just wondering about simulcast issues. Also, did you just scan Fire or were you able to scan PD and if so, was it encrypted?

 

[officer_415]

I was in the city for a little while on the 13th, had to go to Molinari’s to get some stuff for the tailgate. Had the SDS-100 scanning SFD on the new system and the 436 on the old system. They use a very loud and annoying alert on one of the new channels. Also different a male voice for the automated dispatch.

Yeah, the automated dispatch uses long DTMF tones at the beginning.

I love Molinari’s… I’m curious. Were you able to scan the new system on the 436 or just the SDS-100? Just wondering about simulcast issues. Also, did you just scan Fire or were you able to scan PD and if so, was it encrypted?

I've been using a BCD325P2 and it works fine. There's been limited PD activity on the system, and mostly encrypted lately.

 

[Eng74]

I love Molinari’s… I’m curious. Were you able to scan the new system on the 436 or just the SDS-100? Just wondering about simulcast issues. Also, did you just scan Fire or were you able to scan PD and if so, was it encrypted?

I did use the 436 for a while to see how it worked on the system. It was worked fine in the areas of the city I was in, North Beach and The Embarcadero.

 

[officer_415]

Another update, PERS (Site 3) on the SmartZone system has been taken offline.

 

[officer_415]

I ran Unitrunker for a while today and added some new talkgroups to the DB. There are also several talkgroups in the 1400 range (1408, 1412, 1413, 1417, and 1419) which do not have an equivalent on the SmartZone system (they would be in the 22000 range, and the DB currently jumps from 19472 to 25136). There is also P25 talkgroup 36147 which I'm trying to figure out. It's some sort of building maintenance crew, but I don't know what building.

The only active law enforcement talkgroup was 1018 (SF Sheriff A16 Encrypted).

 

[LoveMoto]

As of last week I do not think SFPD has gone to the new encrypted system. There has always been some limited encrypted traffic. Found this article that says SFPD has agreed to keep the initial dispatch unencrypted, then the comms during the call will be encrypted, then when the call is completed the resolution is supposed to be unencrypted. In practice this will be problematic, either for SFPD or for the people expecting parts of the comms to remain unencrypted. Here is the article:

San Francisco finds an alternative to full encryption of police radios

CORRECTION: In an earlier version, the last paragraph had the wrong price for a police radio. It has been corrected. BY ELAINE GOODMAN Daily Post Correspondent As Palo Alto police and other law-enforcement departments across the state move to full encryption of their radio systems — meaning the...

padailypost.com

 

[officer_415]

Found this article that says SFPD has agreed to keep the initial dispatch unencrypted, then the comms during the call will be encrypted, then when the call is completed the resolution is supposed to be unencrypted. In practice this will be problematic, either for SFPD or for the people expecting parts of the comms to remain unencrypted.

That article has been posted in this thread multiple times before. I agree, it won't work out so neatly in practice.

 

[footage]

I have never seen any corroboration of the Palo Alto Daily Press article cited above, only unattributed statements by posters here who may or may not have inside knowledge. So I'm monitoring and eagerly waiting to see what shows up on air.

 

[rooivalk]

I have never seen any corroboration of the Palo Alto Daily Press article cited above, only unattributed statements by posters here who may or may not have inside knowledge. So I'm monitoring and eagerly waiting to see what shows up on air.

As a user (not PD) on the system, the only training sent out revolves around TDMA, and who gets priority during transmissions, nothing about encryption. Also, there is a VERY complicated patching system for the underground Muni tunnels (where the current system doesnt work).