KD6JEK
Member
if it's full encryption, it doesn't matter what scanner you have because you won't be able to pick up anything...
San Francisco Public Safety going Digital June 2021
- Thread starter sffire
- Start date
I would imagine most are going to follow that setup and secure it all.
On the other hand with tons of their analog system radios out there unaccounted for as seen on YouTube videos in auction cars fully functional it is a wonder they never had issues. Its going to be interesting if they do the same thing and surplus a unit with a end capable radio with key loaded still and talkgroup data. Not uncommon out there.
I have come across old p25 gear with keys loaded still and sure enough a agency still uses same data in them which I'd notify them.
Most can expect with our current times for LE to go this route however in majority of places with the budgets, or others will go to mdts and or first net tablets.
On the other hand with tons of their analog system radios out there unaccounted for as seen on YouTube videos in auction cars fully functional it is a wonder they never had issues. Its going to be interesting if they do the same thing and surplus a unit with a end capable radio with key loaded still and talkgroup data. Not uncommon out there.
I have come across old p25 gear with keys loaded still and sure enough a agency still uses same data in them which I'd notify them.
Most can expect with our current times for LE to go this route however in majority of places with the budgets, or others will go to mdts and or first net tablets.
I would guess that only law enforcement will be encrypted. Fire and other city services will probably be in the clear.
I've never heard of this. Examples?
Crown Rick auto is one off head. There is a couple others buying surplus units that have not just the heads in them but entire brick programmed which a couple videos they have it on. One switches talkgroups as well. There was a auditor type that does live YouTube shows going to calls which he has a defunct vic that has a radio on its system which he made joke of before it came with the car. Been a while but I'm sure they are on tube somewhere.
I've seen Crown Rick Auto's channel, but I haven't seen any videos with a working SFPD radio.
To add to @mlangeveld's research: I see new TGs coming online daily, including Sheriff, DPW, SFPD Tac B3, SFUSD. I'll be submitting new TGs to the DB.
The DTIS techs are testing RSSI at various locations. Interesting to watch a system slowly coming together. I remember them doing this when the analog trunking system was being shaken down in 1999. I first started listening to SFPD in 1971 on a little portable RS lowband "Patrolman" and here we are 50 years later.
SFPD A11 is simulcasting in the clear this evening on TG 823 (multiplied by 16 = 13168, the old analog TG). Some SFFD units are on the new system as well, including TGs 36115 and 36116, not previously identified by posters. Radio techs were active today on DTIS talkgroups testing the system, lots of counting down and up. A few new TGs heard today, many in the range used by DPW but not previously listed.
What are the drawbacks to running in full encrypted mode? Is there any difference in audio quality / bandwidth? (I would assume not).
Just wondering if there is any reason not to encrypt everything (aside from key management).
Just wondering if there is any reason not to encrypt everything (aside from key management).
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
No. It just rearranges the 1's and 0's. No difference in audio quality, bandwidth or coverage.
Where it can be an issue is with interoperability, but that is completely manageable with a good plan. Or, lack of proper planning is not a strike against encryption. It just means someone who's getting paid to do this stuff didn't do their job. That's an HR issue, not an encryption issue.
Key management is handled in various ways, and the big radio "M"anufacturers are more than happy to sell you systems to help with key management.
Rumor updates: Public Works will be the first to transition over. Then PD, TDMA only, with encryption only during certain incidents, certain "tactical" channels, etc. There was an option of going encrypted via handheld, only for over the air record checks, but that hasnt been determined. Apparently, normal dispatching will be in the clear, except for TDMA.
KD6JEK
Member
Good to know. Please keep the updates coming.
Seems as if new radios are coming online one by one. Public Works is active on the new system at night. Fire seems to be simulcasting some TGs. There is a mixture of TDMA and regular P25 on the system right now. There are a few new TGs in the range occupied by SFPD, but I have no definite usage to share yet.
Watching the system come online: some notes.
I've heard voice traffic (sometimes only tests) on these TGs. Some of them correspond closely, if not exactly, to existing TGs on the analog system. Some are new. I'm not yet submitting this to the DB because so many are unconfirmed.
There are four poorly formatted columns in the following list, which mean:
New TG TG multiplied by 16 to yield old analog TG, if relevant Old Alpha Tag Description
27 432 enc SFPD?
35 560 enc SFPD?
59 944 enc SFPD?
61 976 enc SFPD?
803 12848 SFPD A1
805 12880 SFPD A2
807 12912 SFPD A3
811 12976 SFPD A5
813 13008 SFPD A6
815 13040 SFPD A7
823 13168 SFPD A11
824 13184 new, probably SFPD
826 13216 new, probably SFPD
828 13248 new, probably SFPD
845 13520 EVENT 1 All City Event 1
847 13552 EVENT 2 All City Event 2
849 13584 SAFEVT 1 Public Safety Event 1
857 13712 SFPD B3 Tactical B3
925 14800 SFFD A1
927 14832 SFFD A2
929 14864 SFFD A3
939 15024 SFPD A8 Tactical A8 - Battalion 8
946 15136 new, probably SFFD
959 15344 SFFD EMS4 EMS 4 / FD-B16 - Private Ambulances
992 15872 SFSO new, in SFSO block
1017 16272 SFSD A16 DISP Patrol Dispatch / SF General
1089 17424 OES 1 Office of Emergency Services 1
1091 17456 OES 1 Office of Emergency Services 2
1103 17648 DTIS 1 Telecomms & Info Services 1
1104 17664 new, in DTIS block
1105 17680 DTIS 1 Telecomms & Info Services 2
1107 17712 PUB-SAFETY Telecomms & Info Services 3 - Public Safety
1108 17728 new, in DTIS block
1112 17792 new, in DTIS block
1571 25136 SF USD 1 San Francisco Unified School District 1 (Maintenance A)
1603 25648 ANIMAL Animal Control
1645 26320 CAO 1 Chief Administrators Office 1 Special
3005 48080 RADIO-1 Radio Service 1
3007 48112 RADIO-2 Radio Service 2
3021 48336 Port Admin Port Authority - Admin
3025 48400 Port Maint Port Authority - Maintenance
3125 50000 Library 1 SF Public Library 1 - Security
3127 50032 Library 2 SF Public Library 2
3129 50064 Library 3 SF Public Library 3
3131 50096 Library 4 SF Public Library 4
4041 64656 DPW23 RE1 Real Estate 1
4045 64720 DPW21 HOJ Hall of Justice Engineering
4053 64848 DPW17 Rep/Mt Buildings Repair and Maintenance
4055 64880 DPW16 Sewer1 Wastewater Sewer Ops 1
4057 64912 DPW16 Sewer1 Wastewater Sewer Ops 2
4061 64976 DPW13 Street Street and Environmental Services 4
4063 65008 DPW12 Bldg 2 Building Repair 2
4071 65136 DPW 8 EMERG DPW Emergency
4075 65200 DPW 6 UrbFor Urban Forestry
4077 65232 DPW 5 St/Ev2 Street and Environmental Services 2
4079 65264 DPW 4 Bldg 1 Building Repair 1
4081 65296 DPW 3 StSew1 Street and Sewer Repair 1
4083 65328 2-BSES DPW 2 Bureau of Street and Environmental Services
4085 65360 1-CONTROL DPW 1 Dispatch
35120 --- SFFD (P25 Phase 1)
35121 --- fire interop with Oakland FD in BART tunnel (P25 Phase 1)
36115 --- SFFD? (P25 Phase 1)
36116 --- SFFD? (P25 Phase 1)
60102 --- Fire Dispatch (Automated) -- great new TG that activates between 400 and 600 times each 24 hrs
60103 --- Testing "DAQ" (Delivered Audio Quality)
I've heard voice traffic (sometimes only tests) on these TGs. Some of them correspond closely, if not exactly, to existing TGs on the analog system. Some are new. I'm not yet submitting this to the DB because so many are unconfirmed.
There are four poorly formatted columns in the following list, which mean:
New TG TG multiplied by 16 to yield old analog TG, if relevant Old Alpha Tag Description
27 432 enc SFPD?
35 560 enc SFPD?
59 944 enc SFPD?
61 976 enc SFPD?
803 12848 SFPD A1
805 12880 SFPD A2
807 12912 SFPD A3
811 12976 SFPD A5
813 13008 SFPD A6
815 13040 SFPD A7
823 13168 SFPD A11
824 13184 new, probably SFPD
826 13216 new, probably SFPD
828 13248 new, probably SFPD
845 13520 EVENT 1 All City Event 1
847 13552 EVENT 2 All City Event 2
849 13584 SAFEVT 1 Public Safety Event 1
857 13712 SFPD B3 Tactical B3
925 14800 SFFD A1
927 14832 SFFD A2
929 14864 SFFD A3
939 15024 SFPD A8 Tactical A8 - Battalion 8
946 15136 new, probably SFFD
959 15344 SFFD EMS4 EMS 4 / FD-B16 - Private Ambulances
992 15872 SFSO new, in SFSO block
1017 16272 SFSD A16 DISP Patrol Dispatch / SF General
1089 17424 OES 1 Office of Emergency Services 1
1091 17456 OES 1 Office of Emergency Services 2
1103 17648 DTIS 1 Telecomms & Info Services 1
1104 17664 new, in DTIS block
1105 17680 DTIS 1 Telecomms & Info Services 2
1107 17712 PUB-SAFETY Telecomms & Info Services 3 - Public Safety
1108 17728 new, in DTIS block
1112 17792 new, in DTIS block
1571 25136 SF USD 1 San Francisco Unified School District 1 (Maintenance A)
1603 25648 ANIMAL Animal Control
1645 26320 CAO 1 Chief Administrators Office 1 Special
3005 48080 RADIO-1 Radio Service 1
3007 48112 RADIO-2 Radio Service 2
3021 48336 Port Admin Port Authority - Admin
3025 48400 Port Maint Port Authority - Maintenance
3125 50000 Library 1 SF Public Library 1 - Security
3127 50032 Library 2 SF Public Library 2
3129 50064 Library 3 SF Public Library 3
3131 50096 Library 4 SF Public Library 4
4041 64656 DPW23 RE1 Real Estate 1
4045 64720 DPW21 HOJ Hall of Justice Engineering
4053 64848 DPW17 Rep/Mt Buildings Repair and Maintenance
4055 64880 DPW16 Sewer1 Wastewater Sewer Ops 1
4057 64912 DPW16 Sewer1 Wastewater Sewer Ops 2
4061 64976 DPW13 Street Street and Environmental Services 4
4063 65008 DPW12 Bldg 2 Building Repair 2
4071 65136 DPW 8 EMERG DPW Emergency
4075 65200 DPW 6 UrbFor Urban Forestry
4077 65232 DPW 5 St/Ev2 Street and Environmental Services 2
4079 65264 DPW 4 Bldg 1 Building Repair 1
4081 65296 DPW 3 StSew1 Street and Sewer Repair 1
4083 65328 2-BSES DPW 2 Bureau of Street and Environmental Services
4085 65360 1-CONTROL DPW 1 Dispatch
35120 --- SFFD (P25 Phase 1)
35121 --- fire interop with Oakland FD in BART tunnel (P25 Phase 1)
36115 --- SFFD? (P25 Phase 1)
36116 --- SFFD? (P25 Phase 1)
60102 --- Fire Dispatch (Automated) -- great new TG that activates between 400 and 600 times each 24 hrs
60103 --- Testing "DAQ" (Delivered Audio Quality)
N6ML
Member
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 1,274
You could make this into a "WIP" wiki page at https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/San_Francisco_County/City_P25
If you have a Google account, along with Google Chrome, I'd suggest using Google Sheets for your research. Copying the rows and columns from Google Sheets (while using Chrome) into the forums keeps the rows and columns formatting clean and equal, if that makes sense.
@mcjones2013 -- good to know. I was just doing this in Excel.
Offhand, does anyone know the frequency or designator for the two-tone alert SFFD is using on TG 60102?
stingray327
Member
I used to also monitor in 1974 started out with a Lafayette Guardian 6000 multi-band AM/FM/VHF HI and LO with UHF. Now I have a Home Patrol II and a BCT 436 handheld but does this mean now I will no longer be able to monitor SFPD or SFFD or any of their public service radios with my new Uniden scanners?
I was wondering the same thing. I did some research and figured out they're just long DTMF tones A and B.
