San Jose Police now encrypted on 700 MHz

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kmh603

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San Jose Police has moved to the Silicon Valley Radio System and every channel is encrypted! It’s UHF system is no longer in use!
 

wallfire

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San Jose Police has moved to the Silicon Valley Radio System and every channel is encrypted! It’s UHF system is no longer in use!

No ranting, just curious if it's really encryption, or simply that they've moved to P25 without encryption? I was previously using cheapo HTs to listen, so I never bought a $700 uniden. Wondering if anyone in the area of the SVRCS has been able to pull the feeds available on here which list all the TalkGroups and such and actually test listening. It's an expensive experiment to buy an actual scanner to find out. Hoping someone has an SDS100 or SDS200 and has attempted since the March 16th changeover, including re-pulling the new frequencies and TalkGroup IDs, etc.
 

Eng74

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iI scan the System when I am there for 49ers games or events. But with no Draft Day Party now this year I won’t be there until maybe June if they do a State of The Franchise event this year. Maybe all this Corona stuff will be over by then.
 

Reese

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Trust me they are using AES 256. Sorry no more listening in. Officer safety ! And before you ask, no there is no way to hack it.
 

ridgescan

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They went encrypted now after all these decades, I'm thinking due to the COVID-19 enforcement they probably don't want us to overhear. I see the SJ police chief on the TV every day now saying they're going to put the hammer on small businesses and regular people. Just a few minutes ago I saw him again, they already have cited 60 total between businesses who were warned but reopened, and regular folks who were supposed to be home.
Am I wrong?
 

b52hbuff

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I have an SDS100 and have been monitoring SVRCS for a while off and on. I've been more interested in Los Altos, Mountain View and Palo Alto which (for now) are mostly unencrypted.

Took a listen to the SJPD TGIDs and unfortunately these TGIDs all appear to be full time encrypted. I recorded for a couple of hours on Saturday afternoon and none of the recordings was in the clear.

So sad to see such a major metropolitan area go dark.
 

scannerboy02

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If you live in an area that uses encryption and you don't like it make your voice heard. Email elected officials, attend city council meetings and speak about it during public comment, and offer other options.

Some options you can offer,
Only 'secondary' or 'tactical' channels be encrypted.
Dispatcher remains in the clear.
Radio traffic be made available online with a delay.
Talk about the interoperability issues encryption causes, most of these regional radio systems were build (and funded) so everyone can talk to everyone, is that still possible?.

It's YOUR radio system, get up and do something about it.
 

inetinfo2

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Was there any public notice regarding San Jose's changeover? I've spent the last hour searching for something without luck.

Where can I read up on the Silicon Valley Regional Communications System (not looking for frequencies specifically, looking more for history and background, when different agencies left their analog systems to join SVRS, etc)? Are *any* cities that are on this system unencrypted?
 
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b52hbuff

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Are *any* cities that are on this system unencrypted?

The encryption / Mode description in the RRDB seems to be pretty accurate.

Off of the top of my head...
Los Altos
Mountain View
Palo Alto
Sunnyvale
(City of) Santa Clara
Los Gatos

...all have dispatch channels that are on SVRCS and are still in the clear. Some of those municipalities have additional Tac channels that may (or may not) have full time encryption. Most of the time I just listen to the system in "ID SEARCH" mode and listen to whatever comes up. I'll hold on a city or channel if there is something interesting. So I didn't notice SJPD because I wasn't actively listening for them.
 

inetinfo2

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If I were a crook with a scanner, and I heard a dispatch transmission to the address I was robbing, I'd get the heck out of there - in which case, it would increase officer safety by avoiding a confrontation, but lower the rate of solved crimes (unless I was interrupted before I got started.) So I'm not sure encryption is purely an officer safety issue. I'm all for encrypting officers executing search warrants, stateouts, and other cases where secrecy is of the essence, but I have a big problem with blanket encryption of everything.
 

inetinfo2

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The encryption / Mode description in the RRDB seems to be pretty accurate.
[snip to save space]
...all have dispatch channels that are on SVRCS and are still in the clear. Some of those municipalities have additional Tac channels that may (or may not) have full time encryption. Most of the time I just listen to the system in "ID SEARCH" mode and listen to whatever comes up. I'll hold on a city or channel if there is something interesting. So I didn't notice SJPD because I wasn't actively listening for them.

Thank you, I'll try to figure out how to get that to my 536HP (I'll read up on it then ask for help if need be, but I'm guessing there are good instructions.)
 

Reese

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If you live in an area that uses encryption and you don't like it make your voice heard. Email elected officials, attend city council meetings and speak about it during public comment, and offer other options.

Some options you can offer,
Only 'secondary' or 'tactical' channels be encrypted.
Dispatcher remains in the clear.
Radio traffic be made available online with a delay.
Talk about the interoperability issues encryption causes, most of these regional radio systems were build (and funded) so everyone can talk to everyone, is that still possible?.

It's YOUR radio system, get up and do something about it.


Just an FYI, when SJPD or any other agency wants to do interoperability, they will use none encrypted T/Gs. So that will not win your battle.
Keep in mind as soon as officer safety is called, all bets are off. It's a job I wouldn't want.
 

scannerboy02

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Just an FYI, when SJPD or any other agency wants to do interoperability, they will use none encrypted T/Gs. So that will not win your battle.
Keep in mind as soon as officer safety is called, all bets are off. It's a job I wouldn't want.
The issue is outside agencies often can't monitor/talk to the encrypted agency for situational awareness.
 

mmckenna

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The issue is outside agencies often can't monitor/talk to the encrypted agency for situational awareness.

Radios on the same system can/will have the encryption keys necessary to listen/talk to SJPD.
The nice thing about a common system like this is that encryption keys can be updated on the fly remotely, so not a big deal.
Any agency responding from outside the SVRIA system isn't going to be first in, so immediate interoperability on the SJPD talkgroups isn't an issue.
 

scannerboy02

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Radios on the same system can/will have the encryption keys necessary to listen/talk to SJPD.
The nice thing about a common system like this is that encryption keys can be updated on the fly remotely, so not a big deal.
Any agency responding from outside the SVRIA system isn't going to be first in, so immediate interoperability on the SJPD talkgroups isn't an issue.
So you are saying a CHP radio that is perhaps programmed with several different radio systems will have all the appropriate keys in the appropriate slots? That takes a LOT of coordination.
 

mmckenna

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So you are saying a CHP radio that is perhaps programmed with several different radio systems will have all the appropriate keys in the appropriate slots? That takes a LOT of coordination.

If the CHP radios in that area are on the SVRIA system, it's likely they have the keys.
CHP has a neat little system where radios can be programmed on the fly, remotely by techs in Sacramento. We did it with an incident locally, they showed up, they connected to our WiFi and Sacramento pushed out the update. Within a few minutes, their radios were on our system.

Also, if the radios are on the system and are set up for Over The Air Rekeying (OTAR), they can receive encryption key updates.
 

scannerboy02

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If the CHP radios in that area are on the SVRIA system, it's likely they have the keys.
CHP has a neat little system where radios can be programmed on the fly, remotely by techs in Sacramento. We did it with an incident locally, they showed up, they connected to our WiFi and Sacramento pushed out the update. Within a few minutes, their radios were on our system.

Also, if the radios are on the system and are set up for Over The Air Rekeying (OTAR), they can receive encryption key updates.
Not trying to argue but I'm more talking about day to day operations. Reprogramming and/or rekeying radios would be very much doable for larger long lasting incidents, I'm more talking about being able to have situational awareness.

Do the system managers in the region coordinate keys between systems? So as an example SVRIA would use key "1" in slot 1 and EBRICS would use key "2" in slot 2, or something along that line? Again thinking about a CHP scenario when perhaps both systems are programmed into the radios. That also would obviously require the radio to except multiple keys.
 

Xray

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If I were a crook with a scanner, and I heard a dispatch transmission to the address I was robbing, I'd get the heck out of there - in which case, it would increase officer safety by avoiding a confrontation, but lower the rate of solved crimes (unless I was interrupted before I got started.) So I'm not sure encryption is purely an officer safety issue. I'm all for encrypting officers executing search warrants, stateouts, and other cases where secrecy is of the essence, but I have a big problem with blanket encryption of everything.

Well yeah, having access to LE comms could help criminals plan their exploits and evade capture. Could be used to set up an ambush, so it is both a public safety and officer safety issue. Its just too bad every criminal doesn't have to buy a $600 scanner to hear these comms, like most of us.
 
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