Sandy Springs, GA Police buying spare parts on eBay

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SCPD

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Mike,I do not understand why all these depts think the have to go digital in the first place when it is actually shorter range and expensive at tax payers cost,I know there are mutual aid frequencies in every state and a national law for all depts and it will make all of those useless with all of the digital hoopla.A few depts in Alabama have make the radio techs remove the entire systems due to the problems the encountered but hey they love spending our money .....
 

MTS2000des

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This is funny, because Sandy Springs doesn't own, or pay for, any infrastructure for the system they've been getting a free ride on. Last I checked, they're using XTS5000 and XTL5000's, so why are they buying "spare parts on Ebay".

I call B.S. on Chief Sult. If he wants to go put up his OWN system, put out an RFP and getting ready to bust out a few million to pay for it. Meanwhile, this is what happens when you want to be a separate from everyone. Sandy Springs is seeing what it costs to be the boss.

Amazing how they have the nerve to complain when they aren't paying hardly anything to use the system, yet their talkgroups are the busiest. Must be nice to live rent free and have someone pay your utilities for you. Chief Sult, quit moaning about the Fulton county TRS, or shut up and help them pay for this digital upgrade you so desperately want...oh wait, not gonna happen.
 

procopper7005

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The chief is simply doing what his masters want him to say. They want him to scream how terrible things are with the radios so Motorola can build a giant expensive system for them.
 

GrumpyGuard

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So will the Chief be charged with receiving stolen property, when the radio parts he buy's turn out to be stolen? What a waste of money. A twenty year old system is not outdated, and they should not have any problem finding parts. Our department has radio repeaters that are well over forty years old and our radio techs find parts
By going digital they will make it impossible for other allied agencies to monitor their traffic. The hobbyist will end up forking out a few hundred to monitor so GRE and Uniden will make a few bucks as well. Therefore they are helping the economy beyond the purchase of the radio system.
 

jim202

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It’s the latest sign that things are tough all over. Sandy Springs police are now reduced to shopping for police radio parts on e-Bay.

Sandy Springs PD forced spare radio parts e-Bay | www.wsbradio.com

If I was a fly on the wall, I would bet that we are seeing the normal sales tactics of the Motorola team in action. Motorola sales team gets their commission on new radios, tax payers get it in the pocketbook. End results is the police department have just replaced good usable radios because they didn't have an outside engineer review what was told to them by Motorola.

If I lived in that county, I would be looking for some new county commissioners and a new police chief for theft of public funds.
 

R8000

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I would bet that we are seeing the normal sales tactics of the Motorola team in action.

Can you please explain in detail ? I'd love to know so I can tell our sales team at the MSS I work with about this new tactic.

As 8 years of being a Motorola tech, I have not seen Motorola do anything different than EF Johnson, Kenwood, GE/Tyco/MA COM/Harris or Tait have done.

In most states (your mileage will vary), any project like a radio system over a certain dollar amount must go to RFP and all be on public record.

If you could please explain your sources and first hand experiences to the group, I'd love to read it.
 

R8000

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Our department has radio repeaters that are well over forty years old and our radio techs find parts

Parts for your Motrac/Micor base station are in a different class than a 8609 trunking system controller.

Kinda hard to really compare here if I am honest.

I guess Motorola is the bad guy for building a system that lasted 20 years. *shrug* . Seems like to me Fulton County got a pretty good bang for their buck.
 

GrumpyGuard

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Parts for your Motrac/Micor base station are in a different class than a 8609 trunking system controller.

Kinda hard to really compare here if I am honest.

I guess Motorola is the bad guy for building a system that lasted 20 years. *shrug* . Seems like to me Fulton County got a pretty good bang for their buck.

Our radio system is trunked. We have a couple hundred hand held units with five base stations and four repeaters. I think I can make the comparison.
 

MTS2000des

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The chief is simply doing what his masters want him to say. They want him to scream how terrible things are with the radios so Motorola can build a giant expensive system for them.

I get that, totally. The problem I have with the entire situation is it goes way deeper than Chief Sult. I've been a lifelong resident of Georgia, I didn't just blow in from somewhere. I've followed the politics of various metro Atlanta counties since I was about 12. We've always had a separatist mentality. It's very unique. I live in Cobb, Cobb is probably the most efficiently run of all metro counties but still much room for improvement. We HAD a AAAA bond rating. We also spend money like it is water. All was good until 2008.

Sandy Springs and "North" Fulton residents have been feuding with Atlanta and "South" Fulton residents for the last 30 years. Notice I put North and South in quotes, because there is only ONE Fulton county. And as bad as the elitists on both ends may want it to be, until the state constitution is changed to allow more than 159 counties, or another county dissolves, this isn't going to change. There are bigger reasons why, it would upset the number of US senate seats.

"North" Fulton residents always complain that the city of Atlanta and the "South" side wants all the tax revenue for "their" projects and expenditures. Fulton county was ahead of everyone else in 1988 when they planned to replace their VHF conventional radio system with an 800MHz Smartnet I simulcast system. Look at Fulton county on a map. It runs 71 miles from southern most part to northern and is as narrow as 4 miles at one point. It was a tremendous undertaking. But the system worked so well, it was a pilot for many other agencies wanting to join the trunking bandwagon, including the city of Atlanta, Cobb, Gwinnett, etc.
In 1991, Roswell and Alpharetta, both had licenses and plans to build their own 800MHz systems, IIRC, Alpharetta used a 3 channel 800MHz conventional system back then. They chose to enter into an agreement with Fulton county and surrender said licenses and become subscribers on the new system. In the beginning, they were paying to be on the system, but that agreement ended around 1995. They've remained on there as well, essentially rent free since. Both agencies have a multitude of talkgroups for police, fire, EMS and public works.

Enter 2004 when the move to make Sandy Springs, Milton and Johns Creek their own cities. By state law, all these cities have to provide city services due to their size and population. It costs real money to start and run a government. Fulton county, who formerly provided police and fire protection, ceased doing so, as the brand new cities had their own. In the interim, Fulton county 911 continued to take 911 calls and dispatch for the new cities. Again, they were under no constitutional mandate to do so. They could have told them tough cookies, work it out on your own. But they didn't. ChatCOMM was created as an authority, and an outside private company was hired to take over 911 for the cities of Johns Creek, Milton and Sandy Springs (and now Dunwoody, in DeKalb county) in 2006.

City of Sandy Springs - Chattahoochee River 9-1-1 Authority

Which brings me to this point: all this time, CHATCOMM users have been enjoying the benefits of use of someone else's infrastructure (the Fulton county 800MHz Smartnet system) at low cost (they did have to purchase their own radios, consolettes, etc.) to no cost for airtime. When you compare other jurisdictions who charge sometimes high users fees (including the UASI overlay), they have been getting a bargain. It's like getting free unlimited use of a cellphone without having to pay for anything but the phone. and not just one phone line, but dozens of them. In use 24/7/365, using lots of minutes.

A bigger question Chief Sult should ask is why iXP, the private contractor who his city hired to operate their emergency communications center, didn't see this coming and provide for it under their own contract? They built a state of the art 911 center, complete with a fitness complex and sleeping quarters, but did these people think they could just use someone else's stuff for free forever and never have to pay? Does the Sandy Springs city council feel Fulton county "owes" it to them and should pay for a digital upgrade? Fulton county, after all, provides minimum services to that area now, other than running court services and a jail, they owe them NOTHING.

An audit should be done of iXP and an inquiry made into their decision to continue using Fulton counties' radio system going back to their formation in 2006. Of course, here's were it might get interesting. Since iXP is a private company, we don't have the benefit of the sunshine act like we do in a real government. Truth is we don't know what went on behind those doors, but you can bet they KNEW what a radio system of their own would cost to cover that area, and CHOSE to keep using a free ride they've been extended as a courtesy. This was a bad decision. The Fulton system is old, it works well for it's age. But it hasn't been upgraded because Fulton county doesn't have the money, and they are under no obligation to fix it for non-paying users who are in areas where they don't have an obligation to provide such services. The last major overhaul was in 2002-2003, when the original controller was replaced with an MTC and the old type I fleet map disbanded. The county also replaced many analog STX radios with XTS5000 and XTL mobiles, with future migration to digital. But a lack of funding has put the infrastructure upgrades on perpetual hold. This stuff ain't cheap you know.

I admire Chief Sult for wanting better communications for his officers. But I think he isn't fully aware of the backstory and how decisions were made that were above his pay grade and may not have been totally on the up and up. He should be asking his agencies' contractor why THEY didn't provide for the needed radio infrastructure to fulfill their contractual obligations, not look to Fulton county, or the taxpayers, for a bailout.

Sorry for the long post. But as usual with these things, there is much more than what is on the surface.
 
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MTS2000des

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There is nothing that says Fulton county HAS to buy their next system from Motorola. Hopefully, a good RFP will be written, and other vendors such as Harris, EF Johnson, and Cassidian will be considered- as they all have comparable and P25 compliant 700/800MHz offerings, that would be fully compatible with the counties' existing digital capable radios (provided they uncheck the "ENABLE PROPRIETARY FEATURES" box in Astro 25 portable and mobile CPS when reprogramming them :).

They can save a ton of money by NOT buying from Motorola. Richardson, TX for example, hired Cassidian, and still got Motorola subscriber radios- better models- for less than Motorola themselves offered in their bid. That's what shopping around gets you.
 

w2csx

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Mike,I do not understand why all these depts think the have to go digital in the first place when it is actually shorter range and expensive at tax payers cost,I know there are mutual aid frequencies in every state and a national law for all depts and it will make all of those useless with all of the digital hoopla.A few depts in Alabama have make the radio techs remove the entire systems due to the problems the encountered but hey they love spending our money .....

I agree. What I think is happening is when the dealers are called for info they are given is that they need digital radios for the narrow band mandate.
 

MTS2000des

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This is NOT about a digital radio sales story. Did you read my posts? Sandy Springs is a BRAND NEW agency, they have BRAND NEW digital subscriber radios (XTS5000 and XTL5000).

They are using someone else's legacy analog system. They have ZERO infrastructure of their own.

Are you suggesting they buy analog infrastructure for their DIGITAL radios they already own?

The real issue is why their private contractor, iXP, who runs CHATCOMM, made a choice to use the existing Fulton county system knowing it was old, and had inadequate coverage for the desired area. The RIGHT questions reporters SHOULD ask is WHY iXP didn't budget for a radio system in 2006.

They built brand new cities from the ground up. They got a new 911 center, and new radios, did they think that buying the radios by themselves was enough?
 

R8000

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Our radio system is trunked. We have a couple hundred hand held units with five base stations and four repeaters. I think I can make the comparison.

My mistake. I didn't realize trunking was around well over 40 years ago.

Damned thing is, I can't seem to find much trunking history before LTR and privacy plus.
 

R8000

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I get that, totally. The problem I have with the entire situation is it goes way deeper than Chief Sult. I've been a lifelong resident of Georgia, I didn't just blow in from somewhere. I've followed the politics of various metro Atlanta counties since I was about 12. We've always had a separatist mentality.......

Good write up. I lived in Atlanta from 1998-2000 in North Fulton County. Interesting bit of history there.
 

GrumpyGuard

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My mistake. I didn't realize trunking was around well over 40 years ago.

Damned thing is, I can't seem to find much trunking history before LTR and privacy plus.

We re-purposed the hardware when we went truncked. Our system has only been Moto type I since 1996
 
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