Saskatoon Canada frequency oddity 155.985 MHz.

[bunkeyslocksmith]

I used to monitor a site around ten or more years ago in Saskatoon at RPC on Central Ave. I used a Uniden HomePatrol 1 with a decent modified TV antenna and it received well. That also was when most of the city went P25 Phase 1 for almost all services, which can be heard loud and clear with the exception of Police, both city and neighboring RCMP are fully encrypted.

The site I am wondering about has changed to digital (non encrypted as far as I can tell) from analog when the rest of city implemented the P25 system. The old analog frequency was and still is 155.9850. All that can be heard now with the HomePatrol is digital encoded voice that can not be heard (squealing).

I have since began trunk monitoring with OP25 on Linux and DSDPlus Fastlane (windows) and have it working reasonably well using a good discone antenna. At this time and has been the case for the last 10 years or so my good old HomePatrol 1 picks up digital audio that is distorted digital not compatible with the old HomePatrol which is only a P25 Phase 1 capable scanner (I think).

I purchased the Extreme upgrade which frankly I consider to be of little use for me. I also tried programing it with the free trial of ARC software which was good, but not great and I would not feel it justifies purchasing for the aging HomePatrol 1.

Using my various monitor methods with RTL-SDR and the software mentioned, I see nothing indicating activity on the normal operational frequency I used to listen to, which was 155.9850. It appears that whatever encoding they presently use must be something I am missing.

Doubting they are associated to the city P25 system. I have attempted to monitor sources on RadioReference databases for Saskatoon and through eliminations think I have narrowed it down to Prairie Mobile or Becker communications being the carrier.

No information is available for the couple suspect source NXDN96 site 1 and LTR site 11 (may be the other way around). The listed control channels are not correct but in the same ranges. Internet searches with supposed spectrum allocations shows nothing. RadioReference and scanner programming software the GPS of that site located at 2125 Central Ave Saskatoon RPC, are in the close vicinity of the site as site 11 and 1 both Prairie Mobile and no identifying information.

I would appreciate any help in identifying what type of digital encoding is being used and if the voice channel can be heard on a different frequency. I am pretty new to SDR but always playing around with it to learn more. Feel free to private message me if you have any insight into this paradox. Thanks.

 

[mciupa]

If you have some way of uploading an audio file, please do so and let the membership give a listen.

 

[harryshute]

It may be a protected frequency, as I see no clues on TAFL. See some analog channels with only Lloydminster Fire as Public Safety. That's far from Saskatoon.

I run both a HomePatrol 1 and 2. Both are still working well for what I use them for, but yes it doesn't handle digital at all, other than P25.

 

[ryan433pk]

I believe it is possible the RPC is using the PPSTN P25 system on an encrypted TG... I will investiate further but I think I remember getting clear DMR on that frequency several years ago... it was definitely one of the jails in town.

 

[bunkeyslocksmith]

As far as I know they do not use P25 (now and for the last 10 or so years). They for a short time used P25-1 on their Astro 25 radios (and could be heard loud and clear on the HomePatrol 1) but in transitioning from that to whatever they use now it is still a mystery to me. I can still detect audible digital noise from the operational frequency 155.9850 with my discone antenna from less than 5kms away and a rubber ducky when close to the sight.

Before, I remember hearing some of the broadcasts several times a day beginning with a call sign or code number the operator would announce before official radio transmissions. I will find out from a person I know that works there if they can tell me the two call signs they used if they still do.

Using SDR+, I see some things in the waterfall, but nothing that is obvious in corresponding with the garbled audio of the HomePatrol. Using SDR Plus Fastlane, I have looked in the 450 range as well as just below and above the main city P25 array and see some very low power spikes that haven't yielded any results.

As far as using the HomePatrol 1 and the Extreme upgrade that I purchased especially for this search, I haven't had any success. Lots of features, but I don't seem to be able to use these upgraded features to find out anything of any use for this.

I still would be happy to know if anybody out there can give me some information to figure out what the system is and how to monitor it or at least find out why it is so unidentified, which would suggest what I suspect and that is that it is not encrypted. I will try to get an audio sample of what HP1 receives (155.9850) and get it posted but I am not sure about the quality it will have.

I tried for a while using the HP1 inline with Unitrunker and had no success. As mentioned in a number of other sources here it is hard to find a Unitrunker version with HomePatrol 1 input option. I also seem to find Unitrunker difficult to use anytime I have tried to get it running.

Anybody working on this assist, I appreciate it and feel free to post or PM me. Thanks.

 

[mciupa]

Maybe try feeding the audio to DSD+ and see what sort of channel activity it is, if they have gone digital.

 

[bunkeyslocksmith]

@mciupa

I am relatively new to DSD+, OP25, Unitrunker and most other SRD-RTL stuff, still learning, but I have to admit I do not know how to do what you have suggested 'feeding the audio to DSD+'. Any directions would appreciated.

 

[mciupa]

@mciupa

I am relatively new to DSD+, OP25, Unitrunker and most other SRD-RTL stuff, still learning, but I have to admit I do not know how to do what you have suggested 'feeding the audio to DSD+'. Any directions would appreciated.

Here's one Extreme feature on your HomePatrol you could try.

Find the Raw Data Output feature. Enter 155.985 Connect one end of an audio cable to Line Out. Connect the other end of the audio cable to your computer Line In. Start on HomePatrol. Run DSD+ and see if anything comes up. I haven't owned a HomePatrol for a few years, so I'm going on memory.

For Unitrunker, I believe you have to go back to the .24 release from 2011 or so. They should be archived. It wasn't stable, it would lock up when you try to open it.

 

[bunkeyslocksmith]

I will give that a try as soon as i get a chance.

 

[bunkeyslocksmith]

Further to this attempt to determine the digital radio frequency mentioned thus far, I have learned from a person at the site that several times a day an announcement is made starting with a supposed call sign of XLF 396. Reference to that call sign thus far searching the internet reveals nothing.

The information I have thus far is as follows:

The site is RPC Saskatoon, SK. Physical address of the site is 2125 Central Ave, Saskatoon, SK. They are a federal government department with association to UofS

Coordinates are: 52.166229741121285, -106.6035742018788

10 or more years ago they were clear voice P25 and used Motorola Astro handhelds. After a change to an unknown radio system, which I am attempting to identify and monitor (determine too if encrypted, which I doubt is the case) was all once clear voice transmissions, are now digital unintelligible noise burst only, with the tell tale characteristic of transmission-response all within the voice spectrum but undecipherable.
They as far as I can determine are not associated with Saskatoon City P25, or Project 1 Saskatoon. It would appear they are using relatively low power, hence the need to be close to the site with anything less than an ideal antenna. Guessing it would be 10miles or less.

I know their radio system is only that physical location and uses about 4 different frequencies which are Inside, outside perimeter, maintenance, and emergency (response).

Using an SDR-RTL and a couple types of software, namely DSDPLUS-fastlane and DSD+ I have only observed a couple areas of questionable and certainly unconfirmed associations to possible carriers that may be managing the radio system of that site.



Results using DSD plus:

451.xxx mhz - 506.xxx mhz

Network - L2028 - Site L2028-11 -- No data for current site found in DSDPLUS.Frequencies.file

Sync: +dPMR
Sync: no sync
Sync: +dMPR CRC ERR
Sync: +IDAS data
Sync: +NXDN48 TB VOICE
Sync: +dMPR CRC ERR
Sync: +NXDN48 TB DATA
Sync: +NXDN48 CS VOICE e:7r6r6r7m
intermittent.


451.87500 mhz -- No identification

Sync: +NXDN48 TB DATA
Sync: +NXDN48 TS VOICE
Sync: +DMR
intermittent.

451.9625 mhz - NEXEDGE96 Site:L2028-11 RAN:11
Sync: +NXDN96 TB CCDATA ERRXX
Sync: +NXDN96 TB CCDATA ERRXX
-continuous scroll..........

452.90000mhz - No identification
Sync: +NXDN96 TB CCDATA ERRXX
Sync: +NXDN96 TB DATA ERRXX
Syn:+dMPR
Sync: No sync
intermitte
460. 18125 mhz, 460.2000 mhz, 460.3375 mhz, 460.0875mhz
+DMR
Sync:+DMR slot 1
Sync:+DMR slot2
+DMR CACH ERR slot 1 BS DATA ERRX DCC=X unknown typeB (cdefghi....etc)
Sync:+DMR slot 1
Sync:+DMR slot

460.28125mhz - 462.8562mhz (heavily populated, numerous low power sources) and 466.78125mhz - 500.000mhz, 506.000mhz


839.xxx to 868.3125mhz excluding P25 city system near 858.1125



Sync: +NXDN48 CS VOICE e:7r6r6r7m


-155.9850 mhz has short digital audio outputs that are unintelligible noise. Monitoring on a phase 1 p25 (home patrol 1 extreme upgraded) scanner.

-The site has no identification using DSD

 

[mciupa]

From what you have posted, one of the frequencies co-relates with this system in our database by the SysID RadioReference.com - Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference Database . Looks like you have found a previously unknown frequency (451.9625)

@ryan433pk is out your way, maybe he is familiar with the others.

 

[bunkeyslocksmith]

I learned a tiny bit more about this issue. I've learned that the portable radio used at the site is a Motorola APX M1. Looking up that radio indicates it is a multi frequency 700-800 MHz as well as UHF VHF capable.
As far as learning more about its modulation, actual frequency, or range remains a mystery other than it can be heard on 155.9850 MHz but incoherent non voice digital voice on a Uniden HomePatrol.

Using DSDplus Fastlane and watching the waterfall on DSD+ trying to catch random transmissions revealed nothing new. I had no luck catching it in the right range. I would like to know what type of frequency that can actually be heard in the clear or if they are indeed encrypted. I am suspecting it must be P25, but how I would find if there is a control channel or what, remains a mystery.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[bunkeyslocksmith]

In my endeavor to listen to 155.9850 MHz in Saskatoon. I have learned that the radios used at that site are APX6000 portables. I think they operate P25 as a single site without using a repeater or anything too elaborate - and without affiliation to the city system. Quoting another thread I learned this about the radios:

ADP no longer comes standard with the APX subscribers, you now have to explicitly order it (although it's still a no-cost option for a single key). This was done in order to ensure that the radios were compliant with P25 CAP standards.

https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/p25compliance-motorola_letter_jan_13_2020_2.pdf

and

It has a MACE chip that can support many types of encryption

So, this begs two questions.

1) Am I hearing P25 P2 and not decoding it properly via SDR P25 methods?
2) is it encrypted?

Or both???

They never had encryption before changing from ASTRO25 to the APX6000. I doubt they would fork out extra for that feature, unless they have changed their thinking drastically when the radio change occurred and I doubt that.

Any help with this is always appreciated.

Thanks.