SB-1000 Law enforcement agencies: radio communications

scannerboy02

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Here are a few takeaways for me.


"Existing law establishes the California Law Enforcement Telecommunications System (CLETS) to make specified criminal justice databases, including individual criminal histories, wanted and missing persons, and stolen firearms, vehicles, and property, available to participating law enforcement agencies. Existing law prohibits unauthorized access to CLETS and the unlawful use of CLETS information by authorized users.

Existing law authorizes the Attorney General to adopt policies, procedures, and practices related to the use of CLETS. These rules require a participating agency to restrict access to CLETS and define “access” as the ability to see or hear any information obtained from CLETS."


Aren't individual criminal histories, wanted and missing persons, and stolen firearms, vehicles, and property information already public information? Most of these things can be found with a web search or FOIA request.


"13675. (a) (1) Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (3) and subdivision (b), each law enforcement agency shall, by no later than January 1, 2023, ensure that all radio communications are accessible to the public.

(2) A law enforcement agency may comply with this subdivision in any manner that provides reasonable public access to radio communications including, without limitation, any of the following means:

(A) Use of unencrypted radio communications on a radio frequency that is able to be monitored by commonly available radio scanning equipment.

(B) Online streaming of radio communications accessible through the agency’s internet website.

(C) Upon request and for a reasonable fee, providing access to encrypted communications to any interested person."


While subdivision (A) would be the easiest option for most departments, those who wish to remain fully encrypted could offer to program the departments encryption key (the use of AES256 would be required) into a Unication pager for anyone who requests it. This would create a bit of a barrier for those who wish to use the radio traffic for nefarious purposes while also allowing access to those who are interested and would be compliant with subdivision (C) of this law. As for subdivision (B), what happens when the stream goes down?
 

mmckenna

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Aren't individual criminal histories, wanted and missing persons, and stolen firearms, vehicles, and property information already public information? Most of these things can be found with a web search or FOIA request.

Some info may be accessible by using a Freedom of Information Act Request, but not all of the info on CLETS. The information that they are concerned about on CLETS is the PII (Personal Identifying Information), in other words, the stuff that someone could use to steal someones identity.
And those requirements are not new. The mandate to protect CLETS information at all times, both when moving and at rest, has been a requirement for a long time. When agencies signed the agreements to access CLETS, they agreed to follow -all- the rules, including protection of the data. It's not optional, and it's nothing new. The only thing that happened was CADOJ put all the agencies on notice that they were going to start enforcing that part of the agreement that individual agencies signed and agreed to.

"13675. (a) (1) Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (3) and subdivision (b), each law enforcement agency shall, by no later than January 1, 2023, ensure that all radio communications are accessible to the public.

(2) A law enforcement agency may comply with this subdivision in any manner that provides reasonable public access to radio communications including, without limitation, any of the following means:

(A) Use of unencrypted radio communications on a radio frequency that is able to be monitored by commonly available radio scanning equipment.

(B) Online streaming of radio communications accessible through the agency’s internet website.

(C) Upon request and for a reasonable fee, providing access to encrypted communications to any interested person."


While subdivision (A) would be the easiest option for most departments,

"Easiest" doesn't take into account a lot of details.
Some agencies have chosen to keep primary dispatch in the clear and have a separate records channel encrypted for handling PII. That's great for larger agencies that have the money to set up their systems that way. For many smaller agencies that don't have a big budget, you'll find they sometimes only have one channel available. No option for a separate records channel. Requiring officers/dispatch to switch back and forth between encrypted and non-encrypted depending on the traffic isn't something that passes muster with security people and often leads to mistakes.



... those who wish to remain fully encrypted could offer to program the departments encryption key (the use of AES256 would be required) into a Unication pager for anyone who requests it.

The handling of encryption keys is a big deal. It's not something to be taken lightly.
Often the keys are handled by one person and are not let out of their sight. That means one person would be responsible for handling all these one of requests.
Putting encryption keys into any radio that showed up with a request creates another huge challenge. Who's going to maintain all the programming software, cables, what if's when firmware/software changes. And then you can risk loosing control of the keys because you've now put them in the equipment belonging to a random stranger with no guarantee of the security of the device it's been put in.

This would create a bit of a barrier for those who wish to use the radio traffic for nefarious purposes while also allowing access to those who are interested and would be compliant with subdivision (C) of this law.

This would create absolutely no barrier what so ever. Scanner/pager/whatever gets stolen. Someone loans it to their friend, someone decides to stream it anyway, someone figures out how to hack a non-compliant device and pull the key out. It's essentially putting encryption keys into an uncontrolled device with no chain of custody.
It also fails to support the general public. It would require purchasing of one device from one manufacturer. It would require said agency to have the same software/cables. Now said agency is responsible for programming radio equipment for the average John Q. Public.
Most agencies don't have time/money to do that. They don't want to deal with the risks. They won't want to deal with doing the expensive/time consuming background checks of the owner.
And then what happens when they roll the keys? Will it be up to said agency to track you down to reload new keys into your pager/scanner?

All of that is time consuming and expensive. It also completely releases control over who holds encryption keys and would violate even the loosest interpretations of any security rule that was rooted in anything considered logical.

As for subdivision (B), what happens when the stream goes down?

You deal with it. Same thing that happens when the radio system goes down. When your scanner breaks. When you go out of town and can't listen. Same thing when they roll their keys and don't send someone out to your home code 3 to reprogram your scanner so you don't miss anything. Same thing when your batteries die in your scanner. Same thing when they use the cell phone or terminal to handle the traffic rather than the radio.


This is the wet dream of the scanner listener, that some agency is going to see you, a scanner listener, as "one of them" and happily give you access to their encryption keys, solely because you saved up your money and bought a scanner. It's not going to happen.
This law is poorly written by politicians that wouldn't know which end of the radio to talk into and would more than likely poke their own eye out with the antenna if not supervised.

If this passes, and I'm not sure it will, the best you are going to see is delayed streaming with redacted audio. Delays on their own are not going to negate the need to protect PII.
No agency is going to enter the business of programming pagers/scanners for the general public.
No security expert is going to let said agency hand out encryption keys to anyone who walks in off the street.
No agency is going to waste the considerable amount of money to do the necessary background checks of the individuals who request this.
No agency is going to want to risk being in violation of this law if they need to roll encryption keys due to a lost radio.

Maybe a few key legit press agencies (not the "YouTube/social media press") might get immediate access with a well controlled agency owned radio that is rented to the agency and very close control over it.
 
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jland138

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FYI, there was similar attempt in the California State Assembly (AB-1555) in 2019 (Bill Text - AB-1555 Police radio communications: encryption.). ERICA runs full-encryption in Coachella Valley (Beaumont, Cathedral City, Desert Hot Sprint, Indio and Palm Springs). A small handful of news agencies got access via programmed radios. But, in 2019, access was revoked because of PII concerns. Once filed, the bill was opposed by PORAC, and then withdrawn by the author.

Palm Springs now has a Calls for Service web site: https://www.palmspringsca.gov/government/departments/police/active-calls-for-service
 

mmckenna

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While I know scanner hobbyists hate it (and probably hate me for saying it), I think that is the best possible outcome. It's not quite as difficult to take an extract off the CAD system and feed that to a website. CHP has been doing that for a very long time successfully and it works surprisingly well.

People gotta remember that the goal is to provide info to ALL the general public, not just cater to the desires of scanner listeners. There are much more efficient ways to get info to the general public than setting up special access paths for a group of hobbyists.

I'm all for keeping primary dispatch in the clear. I've been working on designed for a new system for our PD for a while now, and that's the direction I'm going, but ultimately it's up to the Chief. What she says goes. But multiple channels are not always an option, and not all agencies want to leave the PII security up to someone remembering to change channels. Officers/dispatchers have way to much work on their plates to be saddled with more procedures just to keep a small segment of the population happy.

Providing radios to legit media outlets is a good solution, but there's a lot of challenges with that, also. Pretty much anyone can claim they are "media" at this point. Anyone with a facebook page, YouTube account or a cell phone with a camera will claim it. There are already tons of phony YouTube "News" outlets. It's not up to the PD to decide who the news media is and isn't.

And like I said above, all the agencies that have access to CLETS signed agreements to follow -all- the rules a long time ago. This is nothing new, it's just getting enforced. And it doesn't stop with California, the Feds have similar requirements.
 

mass-man

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Where I work weekends, a TV station, they have radios approved by the largest encrypted systems in the area...I believe it's four! Then 8 scanners for whatever they want to listen to. According to the assignment editor, getting the radios was a lengthy process of application, review by the departments involved, a site visit by a representative of that agency and finally another site visit to insure the radio was used as promised. Guess that was enough to satisfy the legitimate news organization criteria
 

mmckenna

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Where I work weekends, a TV station, they have radios approved by the largest encrypted systems in the area...I believe it's four! Then 8 scanners for whatever they want to listen to. According to the assignment editor, getting the radios was a lengthy process of application, review by the departments involved, a site visit by a representative of that agency and finally another site visit to insure the radio was used as promised. Guess that was enough to satisfy the legitimate news organization criteria

Yeah, that sounds about right.
Just for me to work on the radio/dispatch equipment, and be in the same room as CLETS terminals, overhear things, etc. our department ran me through the same background check as a 911 dispatcher. It was something like 36 pages of questions, finger prints, financial history/credit check, some medical info, college transcripts, high school transcripts, list of 'personal and professional references' (and they all were contacted), vehicle info (including license plates), list of previous traffic infractions, list of family member, then they came and visited my neighborhood and talked to my neighbors at length (try explaining to your next door neighbor why the cops are asking about you).
Then there's periodic training from DOJ/FBI, then all our internal security/network security training.
And then you realize that a lot of the traffic I -really- don't want to hear. No, seriously, I get tired of hearing the worst of what happens in society. I don't find it to be entertainment, not in the least. There are things I wish I could un-hear.

That's how seriously these agencies take this security stuff.

And it's why agencies are not going to hand out encryption keys to random individuals.

I get the desire to know what your local agencies are up to, but the current approach isn't going to work.
 

mmckenna

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I see this fizzling out like all other vague attempts at de-encryption sadly.

As it should. It's another poorly written bill authored by people that would more than likely poke their own eye out with the antenna. No doubt some outside influence put them up to this.

I'd love to see an original argument against encryption. So far they all seem to be centered around "I bought a scanner and I should be able to listen to anything I feel like". That's not going to fly.
 

mmckenna

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I don't think anyone is saying that, really. You want an original argument against encryption yet support your position with hyperbole.

People use that argument frequently on this site.

Along with:
"I'm a taxpayer, I should have access".
or worse, the self proclaimed "watchdog" groups.
My personal favorite "Licensed amateurs should have access to encryption keys". Yes, I've seen that argument a few times here. And the people honestly seem serious.

Whatever...

The truth is the most common arguments are only rooted in frustration that scanner users no longer have access to something they did before.
This bill will likely fail, just like so many others have. They fail because they are not based in any reality and only look at the problem from a singular point of view.

As for original arguments, they are pretty rare. I'd love to see someone come up with a good one.
 

mancow

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People use that argument frequently on this site.

Along with:
"I'm a taxpayer, I should have access".
or worse, the self proclaimed "watchdog" groups.
My personal favorite "Licensed amateurs should have access to encryption keys". Yes, I've seen that argument a few times here. And the people honestly seem serious.

Whatever...

The truth is the most common arguments are only rooted in frustration that scanner users no longer have access to something they did before.
This bill will likely fail, just like so many others have. They fail because they are not based in any reality and only look at the problem from a singular point of view.

As for original arguments, they are pretty rare. I'd love to see someone come up with a good one.


Situational awareness is destroyed with encryption. I mean awareness by neighboring agenices. Nobody shares keys to the extent they should despite what anyone says. Hell, it's only recently here they realized key IDs are a thing and implemented a statewide plan. Who is going to admin it all and what if someone doesn't want to play nice? Then you have the Great Value brand of radio systems crews out there running encrypted DMR or NXDN or whatever welfare mode made the budget limit which has been sold to many small agencies across this great land negating even the possibility of interoperability in a single subscriber source.

I can't begin the count the number of times I have intercepted or otherwise been prepositioned to deal with something that I overheard on neighboring dispatch channels, chases, wanted people, silver alerts, missing children, weather, etc... Moreover, It's ridiculous to expect a State agency like a highway patrol or state police to manage every agency key in their jurisdiction so they end up hearing nothing and can often be right next to an event and not know it until it's too late. Fact is most dispatchers are ultimately unaware of the electronic ecosystem in which they exist and even if they were they lack the infrastructure and manpower to distill the information in a timely and correct context. They have never been behind the wheel and no matter how many years on they have they still can't interpret and parse the information in a manner in which the guy out in the field can. It's no a knock on them, it's just the way it works.

It's assinine and outright dangerous for main dispatch ops to be encrypted.

Imagine pilots relying only on center to relay all traffic? Fedex can't hear the mil reach guy in the area or the Dr. in the Piper. What a nightmare.

It's a solution looking for a fancy exciting problem. Nothing is that critical to be fully encrypted from the outset (main dispatch and response) despite what BS they try to sell us. The dildo brained gangbanger trying to flee the scene isn't relying on a network of monitors to elude justice. As for more sensitive ops, if the agency hasn't preplanned higher level search warrant or surveillance ops on an encrypted side channel then that's their problem, and nobody is even contesting that. It's just common sense.

It's just a means to hide from critiqe. If it were really all that critical type 1 crypto would somehow be a thing in civilian agencies.

Case in point, I listen to mundane B2 Stealth bomber ops all day long every single day, literally. When **** goes pear shaped they will be nowhere to be heard. I know this, they know this, they know I know this, yet somehow we all move along. We currently have a supposed "near peer" superpower running in the clear SSB HF ops in Europe which is being live streamed and real time interpreted yet somehow dillweed county KS needs AES256 for their dispatch ops? GTFO with that.
 
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Outerdog

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As for original arguments, they are pretty rare. I'd love to see someone come up with a good one.

The arguments in favor of dispatch encryption don't meet that standard. What are they? "OfFicEr sAfeTy!" and streaming?

It's funny to me... all the skills and instincts that are attributed to LEOs in endless "pro-police" posts, and they all turn into dumb monkeys when you talk about a radio. Too stupid to switch to an encrypted records channel to run a name?

The CLETS rule is over-bearing to begin with and also lacks a good argument for existing at all. Perhaps that's what needs to be legislated away.
 
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scannerboy02

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I think it's important to point out this bill still allows for encryption just not on "routine" radio traffic. As just about everyone here is saying, that's really the way it should be. This bill is just trying to make that the law.
 

scannerboy02

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The CLETS rule is over-bearing to begin with and also lacks a good argument for existing at all. Perhaps that's what needs to be legislated away.
This was kinda what I was alluding to in my post. Yes, some stuff is confidential (the PII) but most of it is not.

For example an officer can switch to encrypted "channel 2" to run a name and then switch back to unencrypted "channel 1" and when the records check comes back the dispatcher can either say "your subject is clear" or "subject (insert subjects initials) has a warrant." The dispatch position should allow them to monitor both channels at the same time and it's really not that difficult to do that. If additional expense is incurred by an agency that needs to add a "channel 2" that expense is covered by the state in this bill.
 
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mmckenna

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Situational awareness is destroyed with encryption. I mean awareness by neighboring agenices. Nobody shares keys to the extent they should despite what anyone says. Hell, it's only recently here they realized key IDs are a thing and implemented a statewide plan. Who is going to admin it all and what if someone doesn't want to play nice?

What you described isn't an encryption issue. It's an ego issue. And it's been going on long before encryption became popular. Lots of agencies that will not 'allow' neighboring agencies to utilize their frequencies. Sure, use a scanner, but that's not always a solution.

Same thing happens when these large trunked systems get built out. Small/adjacent agencies get locked out. "Buy in or suffer", and the big radio manufacturers love that….

Then you have the Great Value brand of radio systems crews out there running encrypted DMR or NXDN or whatever welfare mode made the budget limit which has been sold to many small agencies across this great land negating even the possibility of interoperability in a single subscriber source.

Lots to unpack there.

P25 was supposed to level the playing field. Mass adoption of a common digital platform was supposed to bring cost down.
Have you compared the cost of a DMR or NXDN radio to a P25 radio?
At least Kenwood/EFJ came out with a multiband radio to address that. Tait is rumored to have one in the works. Motorola? Nope, that would cut into their profits….
Many small agencies can't afford radios from this decade (or even the last one), expecting them to buy brand new APX radios isn't a reality. Small tax bases make it impossible.
All the DMR, NXDN and P25 radios will handle analog. IFOG channels permit interoperability, but then the egos get in the way again….


I can't begin the count the number of times I have intercepted or otherwise been prepositioned to deal with something that I overheard on neighboring dispatch channels, chases, wanted people, silver alerts, missing children, weather, etc... Moreover, It's ridiculous to expect a State agency like a highway patrol or state police to manage every agency key in their jurisdiction so they end up hearing nothing and can often be right next to an event and not know it until it's too late. Fact is most dispatchers are ultimately unaware of the electronic ecosystem in which they exist and even if they were they lack the infrastructure and manpower to distill the information in a timely and correct context. They have never been behind the wheel and no matter how many years on they have they still can't interpret and parse the information in a manner in which the guy out in the field can. It's no a knock on them, it's just the way it works.

It's assinine and outright dangerous for main dispatch ops to be encrypted.

I'd agree with that 99% of the time.
Not all agencies have multiple channels to split things up.
Cooperation with keys needs to be a real thing, and the egotistical chief/sheriff good ol' boy networks need to be torn down.
 

mmckenna

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The arguments in favor of dispatch encryption don't meet that standard. What are they? "OfFicEr sAfeTy!" and streaming?

Well, if you look at the CADOJ requirement, it's protection of PII.

They know in a very litigious society with roaming packs of attorneys just looking for someone to sue, all it will take is someone who's been recently pulled over to have their identity stolen to kick things off.
Someone will sue, then it'll turn into a class action suit with commercials on late night TV:

"Recently been pulled over, think you've had your identity stolen? You deserve a monetary reward for your trouble! Contact the law firm of Dewey, Chetum and Howe, and we'll fight for your rights against those evil law enforcement agencies and make sure you never have to work a day again in your life. You deserve to be rewarded for your trouble. Call now, operators are standing by."​


It's funny to me... all the skills and instincts that are attributed to LEOs in endless "pro-police" posts, and they all turn into dumb monkeys when you talk about a radio. Too stupid to switch to an encrypted records channel to run a name?

The average officer has to qualify annually with their firearms. Frequent training at the range is required. A lot of money is spent on training, ammo, and more training.

You want to guess how much time they spend on radio training? You want to guess how many radio issues I get called on are due to poor officer training?
And you think training them to switch channels is easy?

The CLETS rule is over-bearing to begin with and also lacks a good argument for existing at all. Perhaps that's what needs to be legislated away.

Legislate peoples rights to privacy? Let me know how that works out for you.

If you really believe that, prove it by posting your full name, mailing address, drivers license number, license plate number, criminal history and date of birth. After all, it's just scanner listeners here. They'll keep all that info in secrecy. It won't get streamed out to anyone with a computer or cell phone, and won't be archived for someone to pull up later.
 

mmckenna

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If additional expense is incurred by an agency that needs to add a "channel 2" that expense is covered by the state in this bill.

Do you have any idea how much that would cost?

It's a great solution, but not all agencies have the money to do that.
Adding another talk group on a trunked system is pretty easy.
Adding another channel on a non-trunked system isn't.
Adding more channels to a dispatch console isn't cheap.
Adding voice recorders isn't cheap.
Support, maintenance, depreciation all adds up.
And don't even think about raising taxes…..

Remember, ever vendor along the way wants their cut of the taxpayer pie. They are not going to give this stuff away.
 

Outerdog

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The average officer has to qualify annually with their firearms. Frequent training at the range is required. A lot of money is spent on training, ammo, and more training.

I don't know why. Seems like every officer-involved shooting results in an empty magazine or two.

Hyperbole is fun, huh?
 
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