Scanner Hobbyist and the Quest for functional radio systems

[Pro-95]

The situation: The Nevada Shared Radio System is in dire need of a fix to ensure the safety of the servants that use the 800Mhz EDACS statewide radio systems.

The State Peace Officer Council has demanded via open memo to the state and the Nevada press agencies that Nevada fix the system now or abandon it completely as it is not 100% reliable or 100% functional in the state.

Me, being the quite one and never voicing my opinion, sent an email to the State Peace Officer Council regarding the matter.

Letter sent to the State Peace Officers Council:
**************************************

Hello Sir,

I am not a public official nor am I employed in any law enforcement agency. I am however a very concerned citizen and a radio scanner hobbyist.

I sincerely hope that your latest request to get an operational radio system throughout Nevada is heeded and that those on the hill recognize that the empires built and blatant waste of funds on the existing system is a hemorrhage that needs to be stopped. Anyone that has played with even a basic radio system can tell you that 800Mhz is designed to be primarily line of sight communications.

The previous 40Mhz and even the 150Mhz systems provide a farther reach than that of 800Mhz and it has become painfully apparent that the current system is just barely above that of a string and two cans. Even a MBA can count the number of towers required by Washoe County just to cover the little valley with the most population, imagine attempting to replicate this over an area the size of, and as geographically diverse as Nevada. Even with 5 surrounding and nearby towers there is still holes in the Washoe County system in the greater Reno/Sparks area.

I have written a couple of letters to the communications steering committee regarding the choices and apparent lack of operational status even this far down the project timeline. I have yet to get any response from them. I have however had some response from some members of the Nevada Legislature. I basically questioned those that approved the flawed from inception design on how they sleep at night knowing that they are further jeopardizing the lives of those who walk into harms way to protect us.

Interoperability should be paramount to the design and construction of a radio system. Absolutely no sacrifices should be made that could prohibit those in public service from doing their jobs or needlessly endangering them in doing so.

I am offering my help in any way that I can be beneficial to your cause. I feel that a functional communications system is as fundamental as a working vehicle and that no officer or servant in Nevada should do with anything less than 100% functional and 100% reliable.

Michael W
Concerned Citizen of Nevada

**************************************
Reply from State Peace Officers Council:
**************************************
Michael,

Thank you for your sincere concern. I wish their where more good citizens like you.

...
<snipped>
...

THANK YOU AGAIN!

Ron Cuzze, President
State Peace Officers Council
**************************************

 

[INDY72]

Very good! An actual Official Organization that is willing to listen to a citizen in implementation ideas that make sense,..

Maybe this will actually counter the sales reps hype that "It will work like a charm" type of blather????? Maybe it will send the message to TPTB that serious research needs done when installing a magor system, not just who is cheaper, or who has the best security,.......if an officer can't use his HT to talk to HQ, then what good is a system????? Anyway, way to go!

 

[ECPD279]

Nice.

 

[nmfire10]

You know, it is really sad when state public safety agencies hire dealers and consultants that are SO BAD, they have to rely on the local scanner heads for advice.

 

[AZScanner]

Re: Scanner Hobbyist and the Quest for functional radio syst

:shock: Holy crap dude, that's way cool! Go for it! Hell, maybe they'll offer you a dream job as a radio consultant. Imagine getting paid 6 figures a year to play with cool new toys - not just scanners, but the REAL system radios.... that'd be sweeeeeeeet....

Keep us posted on how this turns out!

-AZ

 

[scanhoog]

First, good going with striking a nerve with the letter.

Second, there was likely no surprise in this instance. The vendors build beautiful 6 color brochures, videos, testimonials, and everything that goes with it touting the latest, greatest communications system. Not wanting to choose second best, well-intentioned officials end up making a purchase without taking the full circumstances into account. They spend more than necessary for other alternatives, while not budgeting anywhere near enough to deploy the new type of system.

If someone believed an 800Mhz system wouldn't require more towers than 40 and 150, that is sad. Most likely, the vendor indicated a need for more towers, but just understated the total number and resultant cost.

Thirdly, I would advise editing out their response to the letter as it might undermine the use of the letter that was sent. Let them publish the letters on web sites and then provide links.

 

[northzone]

You know, it is really sad when state public safety agencies hire dealers and consultants that are SO BAD, they have to rely on the local scanner heads for advice.

What are you talking about. It was the NHP's own personnel that created this mess by wasting 16 million dollars to put up system without licenses. The blame lies completely with the NHP, people should have gone to jail over this.

Pro-95 I think you are getting a little big headed to offer your services. You manage a Radio Shack, what in the hell do you know about large scale radio systems? How many large system have you managed? Where did you get your EE degree? Get real.

By the way, the statewide EDACS system was designed and built for the State DOT, long before the NHP had anything to do with it.

 

[nmfire10]

You know, it is really sad when state public safety agencies hire dealers and consultants that are SO BAD, they have to rely on the local scanner heads for advice.

What are you talking about. It was the NHP's own personnel that created this mess by wasting 16 million dollars to put up system without licenses. The blame lies completely with the NHP, people should have gone to jail over this.

Uh, yea. Ok. There were dealers and other non-NHP people invloved here.

 

[AZScanner]

Pro-95 I think you are getting a little big headed to offer your services. You manage a Radio Shack, what in the hell do you know about large scale radio systems? How many large system have you managed? Where did you get your EE degree? Get real.

Judging from the reply he got, he seems to know more about large scale radio systems than the guys with the fancy degrees do.... how's that for "real"? The one course I never saw in any college catalog is Common Sense 101 - I bet that explains why so many degree holding professionals don't seem to have any.

-AZ

 

[RFGUY]

Northzone:
First off the person who screwed the whole thing up was not associated with NHP but with DOT Telecommunications. His name was Pennington, and he had several degrees.
As far as people here in Nevada caring about their safety and the safety of those who chose to protect us, that's our perogative and has nothing to do with you in California.
If you were knowledgible of Trunking Systems, especially EDACS, you would know that this system is marginal in any service situation and with 800 Mhz in a state such as Nevada, it will never succeed in doing that which COM/NET ERICSSON, claims it will do.
Mr. Pro-95, myself and others know what goes on in Nevada and our comments are made so our State, does not wind up as California has.
I would suggest that in the future you be less critical of issues that you obviously have no knowledge of.

 

[N_Jay]

Re: Scanner Hobbyist and the Quest for functional radio syst

The situation: . . .

Letter sent to the State Peace Officers Council:
**************************************

Hello Sir,

. . . Concerned Citizen of Nevada

**************************************
Reply from State Peace Officers Council:
**************************************
Michael,

. . . would be so inclined.

THANK YOU AGAIN!

Ron Cuzze, President
State Peace Officers Council
**************************************

The State Peace Officers Council ( SPOC ), is proud member of Teamsters Local 14. The SPOC is a non-profit organization that supports Nevada's state law enforcement officers and Nevada Victims of Violent Crime.

Looks like you sent a letter to the Union.

P.S. They don't Buy, Specify, Design, or recommend radio systems.

 

[northzone]

Mark Pennington was an NHP employee, you really know nothing about this do you.

 

[mrjon]

Pro-95 I think you are getting a little big headed to offer your services. You manage a Radio Shack, what in the hell do you know about large scale radio systems? How many large system have you managed? Where did you get your EE degree? Get real.

He stated right up front that he is no "radiocommunications system professional," just a concerned citizen with some common sense, and a hobby that gives him a shade of insight into how things work. He's already got most other RadioShack managers beat with those qualifications...

Besides, from the sound of the situation, a lot of the decisions were made based on how "shiny" the new 800 MHz systems would be, rather than how they could be most effectively implemented. Like the old IT saying, "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM," I guess you could put it something like "Nobody ever got fired for buying an 800 MHz system." Well, somebody ought to be... :x

Judging from the reply he got, he seems to know more about large scale radio systems than the guys with the fancy degrees do.... how's that for "real"? The one course I never saw in any college catalog is Common Sense 101 - I bet that explains why so many degree holding professionals don't seem to have any.

Universities try really hard to beat the common sense out of the few students who might have any left by the time they make it to "higher education." I'm one of the exceptions to that rule myself, but I'm by no means the only one. And those personal qualities were recently great selling points in the job search process... With any luck, my little common sense mind will be programming a Pro-96 soon. 8)

Good job, Pro-95. Someone has to stand up and put things in perspective.

 

[kikito]

You know, it is really sad when state public safety agencies hire dealers and consultants that are SO BAD, they have to rely on the local scanner heads for advice.

It's even sadder to know that there might be "scanner heads" out there that might know just as much as many so-called dealers and consultants which many times are just too-eager-to-sell-you-something-overpaid-crooks.

After seeing on a regular basis how many counties, cities, etc. have an over-budget, full of problems and way past the deadline piece of junk systems, it makes you wonder....

 

[northzone]

Besides, from the sound of the situation, a lot of the decisions were made based on how "shiny" the new 800 MHz systems would be, rather than how they could be most effectively implemented.

You guys really don't get it. NOBODY sold the NHP on an 800 system. The NHP themselves chose to build an unlicensed vhf trunked system.
The DOT was happy with THEIR statewide Edacs system, they did not want the NHP on it. It is well known in the land mobile radio community that Mark Pennington (ex NHP) and Richard Sheldrew (DOT) hated each other. Why would the state build two complete separate statewide trunked systems, one for NHP and one for DOT, wasting millions of dollars?? Stop and Think about it, two separate statewide trunked systems with very few users on either one in 90% of the state. Government screwed up here, not industry.
When the FCC told NHP to get off vhf then they went to the 800 system. The system was not built for NHP and nobody promised anybody anything. Put the blame where it truely belongs, the State of Nevada. They are still running around talking on vhf illegally every day.

 

[HamSexy007]

I'm late into the game here, but let's see if I'm understanding this correctly...

NHP bids, buys and installs a /\/\ VHF trunked system on unlicensed freqs.

NHP then pulls the /\/\ gear, and buys M/A-Com EDACS radios (Orions?) for their cars and uses the legit NDOT system. However, the NDOT system covers for crap and now the NHP is complaining.

About right?

I found some articles online about this, and one of them states that NHP was using 150 MHz channels that were "assigned to and interfering with Railroad communications"...something isn't right here. Are there 150 MHz freq's used by RR's out there, or did the rogue NHP techs use 160 MHz AAR channels?

 

[northzone]

About right, yes. The 160/161 railroad channels were the input frequencies to the sites and there were at least 33 of them.

 

[HamSexy007]

Wow..that's blatent disregard. What a bunch of cowboys. Any respectable tech, either from /\/\ or the NHP, should have known that.

Does anyone have any official documents on this?

 

[K2KOH]

Geez, Mike, maybe you can write to NYS and tell them that their M/A Comm wireless system ain't going to work, either! Nice letter...I wish the NY Statewide Wireless people had listened to mine! :twisted:

 

[N_Jay]

Wow..that's blatent disregard. What a bunch of cowboys. Any respectable tech, either from /\/\ or the NHP, should have known that.

Does anyone have any official documents on this?

It's a long story, those inside know the truth, and those outside will never guess.