Scanners or cell phone on a air plane!!

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nec208

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Scanners or cell phone on a air plane.We know that all electronic devices hava a EMF (Electromagnetic field) and other electronic devices in its field can lead to interference.

So a scanner or cell phone can cause interference even if it is turn on not being used.A scanner cannot transmit but a frontend overload on a scanner putting out RFI a other transmiter could pick up and transmit it.

Scanners or cell phones can cause interference to other electronic devices or frontend overload can cause interference .That is why many hospitals or air planes do not allow cell phones or electronic devices :eek:

My question how long do you think technology will get better to this problem is fixed:eek:
 

gmclam

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Even receivers "transmit"

nec208 said:
So a scanner or cell phone can cause interference even if it is turn on not being used.A scanner cannot transmit but a frontend overload on a scanner putting out RFI a other transmiter could pick up and transmit it.
Signals from electronic devices "leak" into the air. It is pretty much the case for anything that has an oscillator, and is not limited to radios or receivers.

My question how long do you think technology will get better to this problem is fixed:eek:
Generally speaking, when items are produced they must meet some strict guidelines set forth by the FCC and similar organizations. People who design and produce products have to have them tested to make sure they meet the requirements. Often, products will contain shields, electronic components, and other things put there solely for the purpose of reducing radiation. You can't really eliminate it, but you can shieid it or reduce it.

The bigger problem comes when people open up their electronic devices (read 'no user serviceable parts inside') and don't reassemble all the shielding/etc correctly. This is all it takes for a once compliant product to now be an "RF radiator". Average citizens just don't know.

So to answer the question, designs are always getting better. Devices manufactured today are far less radiant than in prior years. We have better circuits, better designs to reduce radiation and tougher standards to meet. BUT, when it comes to situations where it is life-and-death (airplanes and hospitals are 2 good examples), I feel we have to side with caution. Because for one thing, some bozo will bring an electronic device on board that has been modified, not reassembled correctly and/or simply is defective and can interfere with other devices.
 

chrismol1

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hospitals are especially important with the equipment that deals with life.
but on planes i'm not so sure, I once heard that a mechanic said that I cell phone set off the smoke detector in one of the lavatories one time.
with the equipment that jets have, something may occur with a high output of an electromagnetic field. btw, if anything happens, they always have a backup old school gauges(not electronic based) so no worries, its just about impossible to bring down a plane with you cell phone, they used to tell you that becasue they wanted to sell their service for phone on the planes, after 9/11 not so much anymore. things changed with security on planes
 
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nec208

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Signals from electronic devices "leak" into the air. It is pretty much the case for anything that has an oscillator, and is not limited to radios or receivers
I did not not think a scanners had a oscillator? I thought a antena changes electromagnetic to radio frequency .It will pick up the radio wave and convert it to electromagnetic .

But you need a oscillator to convert electromagnetic to radio frequency .

The disturbance may interrupt, obstruct, or otherwise degrade or limit the effective performance of the circuit. The source may be any object, artificial or natural, that carries rapidly changing electrical currents, such as an electrical circuit, the Sun or the Northern Lights.
Looking at wikipedia it is saying anything that rapidly changing electrical currents not voltage.

Or any where electrical power is being turned off and on rapidly .
 
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nec208

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but on planes i'm not so sure, I once heard that a mechanic said that I cell phone set off the smoke detector in one of the lavatories one time.
with the equipment that jets have, something may occur with a high output of an electromagnetic field. btw,
Tell that to are FD that is busy going to fire alarm calls and 95% or 98% seem to be no fires.
 
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DaveNF2G

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nec208 said:
I did not not think a scanners had a oscillator? I thought a antena changes electromagnetic to radio frequency .It will pick up the radio wave and convert it to electromagnetic .
Scanners are radios. They have everything any radio has.

But you need a oscillator to convert electromagnetic to radio frequency .
Radio frequency energy is electromagnetic.

Looking at wikipedia it is saying anything that rapidly changing electrical currents not voltage.
You can't have a current flowing without a voltage difference present.
 

af5rn

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Doesn't matter how well technology improves our devices. They can eliminate even the remotest possibility of interference generation from them and the Nazis will still try to tell us what we can and cannot carry or use on their premises because that's how they get their power trip jollies. Just see the story about the kid with a scanner in school.
 
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DaveNF2G

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What does that have to do with "Nazis" telling us what to do?

The kid was a minor on public school grounds. The administration has every right to tell him what he can and cannot do on the property.
 

SAR923

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The idea that a cell phone can produce enough stray RFI to interfere with any medical monitoring equipment is rapidly approaching urban legend standards. The Mayo Clinic did a test with 10 different types of cell phones in their new ICU before it opened. Not only was there no problems with any of the equipment with the cell phones turned on but there were also no problems when the cell phones were actually in use. I think these rules stem from the days when someone thought something "could" happen but the hypothesis was never tested. I was in an ICU a few weeks ago that had prominent signs about no cell phones and had to laugh when I saw a doctor and nurse both talking on cell phones once I got in the door.
 

af5rn

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DaveNF2G said:
What does that have to do with "Nazis" telling us what to do?

The kid was a minor on public school grounds. The administration has every right to tell him what he can and cannot do on the property.
Sure, but so did the Nazis. Having the power to dictate something and having the valid justification to dictate something are two completely different standards.
 

Raccon

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nec208 said:
Scanners or cell phones can cause interference to other electronic devices or frontend overload can cause interference .That is why many hospitals or air planes do not allow cell phones or electronic devices :eek:

My question how long do you think technology will get better to this problem is fixed:eek:
Though there are only few carriers that allow the use of cellphones on planes or consider to offer that serive it shows that there isn't an issue with interference (or it can be solved by adding some components to the aircraft's system, dunno). However the acceptance is very low, i.e. many customers are against it and thus airlines base their decision on that rather than technical issues.
 

LEH

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af5rn said:
Sure, but so did the Nazis. Having the power to dictate something and having the valid justification to dictate something are two completely different standards.
Okay, so where does the 'Nazi' mentality begin or end?

Is it a 'Nazi' mentality that school boards don't allow students to bring weapons to class?

Should students be allowed to have their cell phones in class so they can talk rather than learn and while they're talking disturb the rest of the class?

Trying to teach students who really (typically) don't want to be there is difficult enough without other distractions. So if a school board feels the need to ban these distractions, that is their right.

So going back to the base question, will technology catch up so that the possibility of RF radiation interfering with aircraft system is negated. Probably, most likely already exists.

But if I were sitting on a plane next to an inconsiderate POS who feels he/she needs to run their mouth on the cell phone the entire flight (or listen to a scanner without an earpiece) or have them banned while flying, I'll take the ban thank you.
 

iMONITOR

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SAR2401 said:
The idea that a cell phone can produce enough stray RFI to interfere with any medical monitoring equipment is rapidly approaching urban legend standards. The Mayo Clinic did a test with 10 different types of cell phones in their new ICU before it opened. Not only was there no problems with any of the equipment with the cell phones turned on but there were also no problems when the cell phones were actually in use. I think these rules stem from the days when someone thought something "could" happen but the hypothesis was never tested. I was in an ICU a few weeks ago that had prominent signs about no cell phones and had to laugh when I saw a doctor and nurse both talking on cell phones once I got in the door.

Exactly! There was an article awhile back where the medical professionals admitted the policy was created just to keep the riffraff out of their space.

It's odd that public safety responders can use 4~5 watt handholds, and much more powerful radios in their vehicles, in close proximity to patients with pacemakers, or while connected to various electronic equipment without incident.

The typical cell phone being 1/6 of a watt doesn't seem to pose much threat.
 

Zaratsu

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DaveNF2G said:
What does that have to do with "Nazis" telling us what to do?

The kid was a minor on public school grounds. The administration has every right to tell him what he can and cannot do on the property.

hahaha, seriously wtf, take your damn pills okay!:lol:
 

Zaratsu

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af5rn said:
Sure, but so did the Nazis. Having the power to dictate something and having the valid justification to dictate something are two completely different standards.


WAT?




Okay, the Nazis had rules, so therefore if we have rules we are Nazis?

Do you pull this crap at public pools, libraries, or other places with rules that apply to common sense that some cannot seem to still follow?
 

dic

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I am a Commercial Pilot.
When I took my instrument checkride, I asked the examiner if cell phones actually DO affect the instruments in an aircraft.

We were sitting in line to taxi, he pulled out his cell phone, turned it on an called his wife.
He said hello and that he called so a pilot could find out if there really was interference from a cell phone.

He held the phone next to the instruments in the ****pit, he passed the phone over all of his and all of my instruments. NOTHING. He opened his door, stood up and held the phone next to the antennas on the roof of the plane, NOTHING.

He said there are various reasons why cell phone use is banned on planes, but this has all been discussed here before.

In fact, when I did my ILS portion of my checkride, I did it perfectly. After we touched down, he said please do a go around. I did. He said you have passed your checkride, but would you like to try that ILS again, this time with a cell phone? So I did a complete ILS landing (with a hood) with the examiner sitting two feet away from me asking his wife what they were having for dinner.

I know from experience that the cell phone/interference with instruments/fear factor is crap.

Pilots say that checkrides are sometimes the best lessons you could ever have.

That one certainly was.

Dic
 
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nec208

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Scanners are radios. They have everything any radio has.



Radio frequency energy is electromagnetic.
You need a oscillator to transmit.A oscillator will change the current or voltage very fast to generate a radio wave.The number of waves or frequency numbers you see on your scanner are the number of times a oscillator current or voltage changes.A hertz is one oscillator cycle,1 KHZ is 1000 hertz or 1000 oscillator cycle.

But a scanner is not changing the current or voltage very fast to generate a radio wave or frequency oscilltation.

A radio wave is just that a number of times a oscillator current or voltage changes in the aire and electrical signal is by wire not aire.

Any electrical current in a wire or electronic device has a magnetic field..Any electronic device has a electromagnetic when turn on.

You can't have a current flowing without a voltage difference present.
 
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