Scanning my utility company

[RPETER]

My local gas and electric company has according to the digital frequency search web sight a digital NXDN radio system. I found the frequencies on Radio Reference. There is around fourteen frequencies. More than one frequency is sending out a pulsating distal signal which I am guessing indicates its a trunked system. I have a BCD325P2 that has the NXDN option. When I enter the frequencies as a trunked system the scanner asked me for a LCN number which I believe stands for logical channel number. I have no clue how to locate that.

Any suggestions?

Thank you
RP

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

BCD325P2 doesn't have an LCN finder. Easiest method would be to determine which frequencies are indeed in use (perhaps program them as conventional first then let them scan for a while to determine which are active) then run LCN finder on an x36HP or SDSx00 to get correct LCNs (may take hours, most of the day depending on how busy system is and how many frequencies are indeed active) Alternatively you can use DSDPlus paired with a software defined radio to get correct LCNs that way. Make sure you take note of correct RAN code (NEXEDGE) or AREA code (0 or 1 for IDAS) as well so you can properly track the system

Can you post the license so we can verify emissions?

 

[hiegtx]

My local gas and electric company has according to the digital frequency search web sight a digital NXDN radio system. I found the frequencies on Radio Reference. There is around fourteen frequencies. More than one frequency is sending out a pulsating distal signal which I am guessing indicates its a trunked system. I have a BCD325P2 that has the NXDN option. When I enter the frequencies as a trunked system the scanner asked me for a LCN number which I believe stands for logical channel number. I have no clue how to locate that.

Any suggestions?

Thank you
RP

Are you looking at this company (Unitil)?
License ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional License - WQTU855 - Unitil Energy Systems - Fitchburg

If so, that license is for use as conventional channels, not trunked. It is possible that, even if licensed conventional, they are using a trunked system. I've seen some business DMR systems in my area that are licensed for conventional use, but actually are a trunked system. If it really is being used as a trunked system, then, as Whiskey3 has already noted, you would need the LCNs to successfully program it in your 325P2. You might try the NXDN calculator in this thread: NXDN Calculator V3

If, though, they are using it as conventional channels, you can enter those frequencies in a conventional system, with audio mode set as digital, and set as 'Search' to find the RAN or Area code.

You also have the option to create this as a NXDN One Frequency system.
Enter each of the repeater frequencies (those tagged as FB2 in the Station Class column) as a separate site, with the RAN set as 'Search'.
Create a Department for talkgroups, and enter at least one 'dummy' TGID (I simply use a talkgroup as the number 1 (one). Set your system to ID Search. That would receive any voice transmissions as long as they are not encrypted. Even though licensed as conventional, they still might be using talkgroups, such as 101 for field service units for the electrical side, and a different one for units handling gas service calls.

Are you using software such as ProScan or ARC-XT, or programming through the keypad?

 

[RPETER]

Are you looking at this company (Unitil)?
License ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional License - WQTU855 - Unitil Energy Systems - Fitchburg

If so, that license is for use as conventional channels, not trunked. It is possible that, even if licensed conventional, they are using a trunked system. I've seen some business DMR systems in my area that are licensed for conventional use, but actually are a trunked system. If it really is being used as a trunked system, then, as Whiskey3 has already noted, you would need the LCNs to successfully program it in your 325P2. You might try the NXDN calculator in this thread: NXDN Calculator V3

If, though, they are using it as conventional channels, you can enter those frequencies in a conventional system, with audio mode set as digital, and set as 'Search' to find the RAN or Area code.

You also have the option to create this as a NXDN One Frequency system.
Enter each of the repeater frequencies (those tagged as FB2 in the Station Class column) as a separate site, with the RAN set as 'Search'.
Create a Department for talkgroups, and enter at least one 'dummy' TGID (I simply use a talkgroup as the number 1 (one). Set your system to ID Search. That would receive any voice transmissions as long as they are not encrypted. Even though licensed as conventional, they still might be using talkgroups, such as 101 for field service units for the electrical side, and a different one for units handling gas service calls.

Are you using software such as ProScan or ARC-XT, or programming through the keypad?

 

[RPETER]

Yes its Unitil Fitchburg. I haven't picked up any software yet and am just using the keypad. Thank you for the info.
I moved into a condo complex and as there are a number of older people here and whenever the power goes off they tend to panic. Its pretty much impossible to get through to the power company when that happens. Usually as I monitor the Police and Fire Dept I do get a status from them that they are aware and working on it. Monitoring them directly would even be better.
I will at some time upgrade to the SDS100 that apparently has LCN locator capability. I'm not even sure they still use this group of frequencies. The radio hobby is always about trial and error.

RP (KC1FEC)

 

[ecps92]

You only need to listen to the FB2 channels [Repeater outputs]

The license does not appear to be a Trunk, but alas that can be wrong.
Only based on the Radio Service of

IG - Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional

And other than it being NexEdge, not much reported on it at SNE either

Massachusetts Commercial Utilities - Scan New England Wiki

www.snewiki.com

My local gas and electric company has according to the digital frequency search web sight a digital NXDN radio system. I found the frequencies on Radio Reference. There is around fourteen frequencies. More than one frequency is sending out a pulsating distal signal which I am guessing indicates its a trunked system. I have a BCD325P2 that has the NXDN option. When I enter the frequencies as a trunked system the scanner asked me for a LCN number which I believe stands for logical channel number. I have no clue how to locate that.

Any suggestions?

Thank you
RP

 

[sonm10]

Is there a constant control channel (never ending digital noise)? That will indicate trunking. If not, will indicate conventional.

 

[RPETER]

Is there a constant control channel (never ending digital noise)? That will indicate trunking. If not, will indicate conventional.

Is not constant. It's pulsating, sounds like a motor boat. The frequencies are 451.11875 FB2, 451.125 FB2, 451.13125 FB2.
When I tune the frequencies in FM mode on my FT-991A the spectrum scope registers a very strong signal as if the repeater is close by.

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

If it's once every few seconds as heard here & seeing NXDN emissions on the license, my bet is it's an IDAS trunking system whereas NEXEDGE 4800 & 9600 control channels are constant. See also here

 

[ecps92]

Put each one [Repeater] in as a Conventional frequency and see what decodes [Color and if they talk Slot and Talkgroups]

None of the Repeaters are that far away, you can see the map of the locations at

ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional License - WQTU855 - Unitil Energy Systems - Fitchburg - Locations Summary

Is not constant. It's pulsating, sounds like a motor boat. The frequencies are 451.11875 FB2, 451.125 FB2, 451.13125 FB2.
When I tune the frequencies in FM mode on my FT-991A the spectrum scope registers a very strong signal as if the repeater is close by.

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

Put each one [Repeater] in as a Conventional frequency and see what decodes [Color and if they talk Slot and Talkgroups]

Color code and slot aren't applicable to NXDN. Assuming IDAS, the OP should look for an AREA code (0 or 1) in addition to talkgroups

 

[ecps92]

Meant to use RAN vs Color

Color code and slot aren't applicable to NXDN. Assuming IDAS, the OP should look for an AREA code (0 or 1) in addition to talkgroups

 

[sonm10]

If it's once every few seconds as heard here & seeing NXDN emissions on the license, my bet is it's an IDAS trunking system whereas NEXEDGE 4800 & 9600 control channels are constant. See also here

Thanks Whiskey, forgot about idas.

 

[JoeBearcat]

Is there a constant control channel (never ending digital noise)? That will indicate trunking. If not, will indicate conventional.

Constant or pulsing data can also be a data channel (as opposed to a control channel). This is especially true for utilities that have remote monitoring systems.

OR it might be the control channel for a co-channel user within reception range.

It is not always a control channel for the user of interest.

 

[RPETER]

Constant or pulsing data can also be a data channel (as opposed to a control channel). This is especially true for utilities that have remote monitoring systems.

OR it might be the control channel for a co-channel user within reception range.

It is not always a control channel for the user of interest.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Looks like this one is going to be a tough nut to crack.

 

[hiegtx]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Looks like this one is going to be a tough nut to crack.

Since it does not appear (so far) to be a 'full blown' trunked system, with control channels & other characteristics, I'd program the frequencies listed as FB2 (the base station repeaters) as individual sites (one frequency per site), set as ID Search, and with a Department containing at least one TGID. Set the sites as "search" for the RAN. (This is what I also mentioned in Post #3 above.) This would be easy to do quickly in ProScan, I could probably generate a step-by-step document for doing it with the keypad, but software would me much easier & quicker.

 

[natedawg1604]

You really need to get a couple SDR RTL dongles (the genuine ones) and DSD+ Fastlane, this will allow you to log & monitor frequencies 24/7; it greatly speeds up LCN finding. Also I would suggest getting familiar with what NXDN sounds like in analog mode, then run a custom band search over the UHF commercial band (approx. 450-469) and write down the possible NXDN freqs. Then monitor them individually with your scanner or preferably DSD+, and you WILL figure it out. Doing this manually (i.e. without DSD+) is definitely more time consuming, especially with a system that isn't very busy or doesn't broadcast a lot of voice grants.