BCD325P2/BCD996P2: Scanning TGID's

[coreymillia]

Just recently RadioReference updated my counties TGID's for the Sheriff. When I import the information and then scan and hold the talkgroup. It just says "finding control channel". What are the reasons that it would do this? I am pretty sure it is programmed right, but I could be wrong. Is the other reason simply that I am not in the range of the tower(s). I noticed that all TGID's do this, no matter where it is located. I live far from anything in Teller county Colorado, but clearly they are hearing their dispatchers, I can only hear them. I have tried adding every control channel in the county, and the channels I have heard the LEO's transmitting on. But, nothing seems to change.

 

[ka3aaa]

I would guess your out of range to far to receive the control channel. Do you hear any noise when you hold on the control channel, you should at least hear a pulsing hissing noise. Do you have the correct channels programmed into the scanner.
Do you have an outdoor antenna.

 

[jonwienke]

You don't scan talkgroups. You scan sites. Talkgroups are used to identify traffic once it's being received.

 

[coreymillia]

I would guess your out of range to far to receive the control channel. Do you hear any noise when you hold on the control channel, you should at least hear a pulsing hissing noise. Do you have the correct channels programmed into the scanner.
Do you have an outdoor antenna.

No sound when I manually go to the control channels. Shows I am in range of one site, at least. I have a roof mounted discone. Gets some analog signals from 70 miles away. The topography of the area I guess could be blocking the P25 system. However they have to be getting their transmissions, because I can hear one side of the conversation when they output their message. Or do they just have better radios? Maybe I am not using the right frequencies. But, there was not many for this area. I tried adding some of the surrounding counties sites. And have found some stuff broadcasting doing a control channel only search in the custom frequencies. But, not the local sheriff. Should I try adding more of the surrounding counties?

 

[coreymillia]

You don't scan talkgroups. You scan sites. Talkgroups are used to identify traffic once it's being received.

So, you will never hear anything holding on the TGID's? Maybe I should just add every site in the state and see if anything picks up. Then update it later with anything that works. There was a couple thousand, that may take a while to scan, but is a good idea or a waste of time?

 

[jonwienke]

Again, talkgroups are not scanned. They are identifiers that tell the scanner what it's hearing when a transmission comes in on a trunked system site. Sites are what actually get scanned.

Holding on a talkgroup forces the scanner to ignore all traffic on the system that isn't tagged with that talkgroup ID. So that would be the exact opposite of what you're trying to do. Turn location control on in your favorite list and the scanner will automatically scan the closest sites.

 

[doctordialtone]

So, you will never hear anything holding on the TGID's?

Perhaps you should read up on how a trunked radio system works:

Trunked Radio Systems - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

 

[coreymillia]

Again, talkgroups are not scanned. They are identifiers that tell the scanner what it's hearing when a transmission comes in on a trunked system site. Sites are what actually get scanned.

Holding on a talkgroup forces the scanner to ignore all traffic on the system that isn't tagged with that talkgroup ID. So that would be the exact opposite of what you're trying to do. Turn location control on in your favorite list and the scanner will automatically scan the closest sites.

Okay, thanks. I understand now. I programmed every surrounding county and their sites, and am picking up everything as it should in their county. I see it is displaying everything properly and showing the ID, group and site. But. Still no sheriff from this county. So I am guessing it has to be a geographic problem. My house is on the side of a large mountain. Or I missed a site.

What I don't get is why when I did a spectrum search I picked up a frequency, and then programmed it, why dispatch from the counties from the northwest and southeast transmit on the same channel. It kind of sounded like the same lady.

 

[coreymillia]

Alright, I got it working. Picked up this counties transmissions from a neighboring county site. Getting all sorts of action from other counties. Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[Spitfire8520]

Okay, thanks. I understand now. I programmed every surrounding county and their sites, and am picking up everything as it should in their county. I see it is displaying everything properly and showing the ID, group and site. But. Still no sheriff from this county. So I am guessing it has to be a geographic problem. My house is on the side of a large mountain. Or I missed a site.

What I don't get is why when I did a spectrum search I picked up a frequency, and then programmed it, why dispatch from the counties from the northwest and southeast transmit on the same channel. It kind of sounded like the same lady.

What site do you have programmed that you are able to receive?

I would highly recommend programming Tenderfoot II, which is located immediately northeast of Cripple Creek. This is probably your best option for trying to receive Teller County.

Some other sites that I would expect to frequently carry Teller County are below.
Woodland Park
Badger Mountain

Sites that might infrequently carry Teller County are below.
Douglas County South Simulcast

Generally you will only need to program the primary (red) and alternate (blue) control channels if the database is kept up-to-date. The remaining frequencies are typically reserved for transmitting voice and are not normally used as control channels.

You can see a map of the sites for DTRS at Site Map: State of Colorado DTRS Trunking System, Statewide, Multi-State.

For the second half of your reply, I would suggest reading Trunking Basics. Anyone can use a trunked frequency as assigned by the site they are using, which is why sites have a pool of frequencies assigned to them. That means anyone from anywhere can be using that frequency if they happen to be using that site.

There is also a section on affiliation in the Trunking Basics article that you may want to look at to understand why an agency might not be on a specific site all the time. This will probably affect your ability to receive significantly, especially if the only sites that you can receive are located outside of the county. If that is the case, then you might be in a location where you may not be able to receive Teller County unless someone with a radio happens to be nearby. I am under the impression that there might be a coverage gap around Victor as there is a new site in the works at Little Grouse immediately west of Victor.

 

[coreymillia]

What site do you have programmed that you are able to receive?

I would highly recommend programming Tenderfoot II, which is located immediately northeast of Cripple Creek. This is probably your best option for trying to receive Teller County.

Some other sites that I would expect to frequently carry Teller County are below.
Woodland Park
Badger Mountain

Sites that might infrequently carry Teller County are below.
Douglas County South Simulcast

Generally you will only need to program the primary (red) and alternate (blue) control channels if the database is kept up-to-date. The remaining frequencies are typically reserved for transmitting voice and are not normally used as control channels.

You can see a map of the sites for DTRS at Site Map: State of Colorado DTRS Trunking System, Statewide, Multi-State.

For the second half of your reply, I would suggest reading Trunking Basics. Anyone can use a trunked frequency as assigned by the site they are using, which is why sites have a pool of frequencies assigned to them. That means anyone from anywhere can be using that frequency if they happen to be using that site.

There is also a section on affiliation in the Trunking Basics article that you may want to look at to understand why an agency might not be on a specific site all the time. This will probably affect your ability to receive significantly, especially if the only sites that you can receive are located outside of the county. If that is the case, then you might be in a location where you may not be able to receive Teller County unless someone with a radio happens to be nearby. I am under the impression that there might be a coverage gap around Victor as there is a new site in the works at Little Grouse immediately west of Victor.

Thank you, I did not know about the new site. I hike on little grouse and they have had the trail closed for months now. They put a tower up there last year which I thought was a repeater. And I have been up to the old repeater for analog, right by my house. Which has been silent for the sheriff for a couple of months.

I originally tried Tenderfoot II and the other site in the county. Also a few other sites I thought may carry the signal. After catching that single channel doing a sweep, and hearing two far off counties. Plus learning more about how trunking works, I decided to add every single site in every surrounding county. The first night I hit on one site, turned the alert tone on, and just in the last hour it has hit on 2 more. None of which show in range. Riley, Pueblo, and Sacramento mountain. So, I think I am just in the shadow of a mountain for the two sites in this county. Located right on the south side of a mountain, behind a mine. Now I have figured out how the TGID's work and separated everything I wanted to hear in groups.

I was going to make note of which signal sites were hitting, and make a new system. But, can I assume if there is no bars show in a site as it scans through, that scanning them, is a waste of time? I feel like with the analog signals that some days and night the propagation would change. So, I am not sure if some nights some sites may pick up.

Gonna keep reading about trunking, but am pretty happy to have figured this much out. Getting a lot more transmissions than ever anticipated, very clear.

 

[Spitfire8520]

I was going to make note of which signal sites were hitting, and make a new system. But, can I assume if there is no bars show in a site as it scans through, that scanning them, is a waste of time? I feel like with the analog signals that some days and night the propagation would change. So, I am not sure if some nights some sites may pick up.

I believe the scanner will briefly pause on site frequencies that break the squelch. You could try adjusting the squelch lower to see if that helps with receiving weaker sites. This can be done by using the FUNC and pressing down on the scroll knob. I have experienced propagation changes before with different conditions.

 

[jonwienke]

I believe the scanner will briefly pause on site frequencies that break the squelch. You could try adjusting the squelch lower to see if that helps with receiving weaker sites. This can be done by using the FUNC and pressing down on the scroll knob.

Unlike the 436 and SDS100, the 996 has a dedicated squelch knob.