Schuylkill County P25 TRS?

[joeyvb]

Ron
Thank you for the reply currently that system is a secret under lock and key I do know that the radios being used are APX series only. Greens is a monopoly and overcharges for everything. He's always trying to sell new. ADP is most likely the encryption used. As you said about phase II it currently unknown. The commissioners refuse to "spill the beans" on the frequencies and any of the other things involved. I'm going to say probably cause green is like that to sell you a model III when you only want a model I or 1.5. Thanks again I'll have my ears out and eyes for that encryption board
73s
Joe

 

[chankel]

Even with a radio with the correct encryption capabilities you still need an authorized user to connect a keyloader with the correct code plug. I do believe Icom and Vertex Standard dealers sell P25 radios that may also be compatible. Once you know your needs you can always contact one of them.

I'm guessing by "greens" you mean Schuylkill Mobile Fone & Green's Communications. Secretive or not, even with the system encrypted, with the licenses and frequency ranges known it will not be hard to find the control channels, and if everything is encrypted ("because we can!" or because the contractor got extra money out of encryption being the two reasons I can think of) then why bother trying to hide frequencies? "Because we can!"

 

[joeyvb]

I'm guessing by "greens" you mean Schuylkill Mobile Fone & Green's Communications. Secretive or not, even with the system encrypted, with the licenses and frequency ranges known it will not be hard to find the control channels, and if everything is encrypted ("because we can!" or because the contractor got extra money out of encryption being the two reasons I can think of) then why bother trying to hide frequencies? "Because we can!"

It's been stated by comm center personnel that it's encrypted. Now the question lies to what type? Some are saying its a whole new algorithm created just for our county. But I have a reason to believe that it's ADP due to the fact that someone stated to me that only motorola radios could be used in the system and learning from Thundebolt that that's a catch to that algorithm.
Joe

 

[brey1234]

Schylkill co encryption

The man who heads the Schuylkill County 911 center is a friend of mine. The following is an email exchange I had with him.
========\






Scott:

Hope all is well with you and your family. I have been on medical leave and recovering from some heart issues ;-(

Anyway someone told me that all of the new police frequencies that are in place are using P-25 "modulation" and are encrypted.

That locks out law abiding citizens not knowing what's going on in their neighborhoods.

I would ask you to reconsider that decision and that at least the initial dispatch channels be transmitted in the clear. I can understand why "sensitive" communications be encrypted but I don't believe routine comm's should be secret.

The following are news reports documenting how law abiding citizens have helped law enforcement by listening to police traffic

Police arrest suspect in W-B bank robbery - Citizens' Voice.

The Davis Clipper - Teen crashes in stolen car after Syracuse chase

Police believe home invasion suspects were looking for drugs - News - The Daily Telegram - Adrian, MI - Adrian, MI

Two held after chase  : Times Argus Online

Man, woman are arrested in restaurant robbery | Deseret News

KSL cameraman goes to the rescue | Deseret News

Then there is a police chief who encourages citizens to listen to his officers communication.

CCSO Migrates to New 800 MHz Digital Trunked Radio System


Best Regards,


Bob

P.S. There are some who say encryption is for officers safety but I have found those who say that can't document a single case
===================

Good Morning Bob,



The family is good, thanks for asking. I am glad to see you are on the road to recovery from your issues and wish you nothing but continued health. We will be taking our lead from our Police Depts. for the use of encryption. I can understand both sides of this issue, but there are just as many documented cases of when Police enter a home of a criminal and they are listening to their transmissions. I will keep you informed as we move along.



All the best to you



Scott.





Scott D. Krater, Director

Schuylkill County 9-1-1

President-- PAAPCO

435 N. Centre St.

Pottsville,PA 17901

 

[joeyvb]

thanks Bob,
Bob Reynolds of WNEP? i can see both sides too since i work in the field of EMS. i will still refrain from using names over the radio even after we are on the new system. EMS and Police have a use for encryption but fire? i don't see a need. also fire not being able to transmit over one another is a good and bad thing what about maydays and some guy starts talking about a hydrant 3 blocks away. most people in our county don't even have a digital scanner. bit of overkill if you ask me. hope to one day chat with you on 2 meter Bob.
Joe

 

[chankel]

Even if a channel is encrypted using patient names over the radio is a bad idea. If someone not directly involved in the patient's care - even with an authorized radio - is listening in and hears protected information, a HIPPA violation has occurred.

Since the 911 center controls the system, they need to take their own lead and avoid encryption for the most part, but that's just what I think, and I don't even live there, so I'm under no illusion that my opinion really matters.

 

[joeyvb]

Actually the county commissioners have the lead and own the system. The system is administrated by Greens and I'm sure the director of the 911 center.

 

[Steveradio]

With Schuylkill Co its all about cost, running with a fire department for 3 years and trying to get them to switch from 46mhz radios to use vehicle repeaters was almost impossible than at the same note was finding out numerous unlicensed frequencies were being used and was told not to worry about it any more. Pretty much they told me they need to work with what they have.

The police system always worked well but many ears listening..

 

[chankel]

Thank you for the update about the system ownership. I understand that commercial equipment can be expensive for volunteer companies, but the licensing fees are really not all that bad. I'd simply say license right the first time and set a good example.

The VHF control channels weren't all that strong up around Brockton Mtn. and Locust Lake when I was passing through yesterday afternoon and this afternoon, but they are readable and the NAC's match with what is reported in the database. I scanned between the expected frequency ranges for more control channels but only found the ones listed in the DB. Despite this, encrypted traffic was sparse.

I was using an older scanner so it may be suffering from desense due to age.

 

[joeyvb]

just an update i was able to come about a radio to "play with" and found it was a APX6000Li and the encryption it looked like was AES that's what it said on the screen. really nice radios but without a key any radio or scanners buy is just a brick.

 

[chankel]

Even with a key, I'm pretty certain that monitoring an encrypted system without authorization from the system owner would be illegal. Besides, radios can be rekeyed, including over the air, and good COMMSEC procedure would be to rekey radios at random intervals.

There are no scanners that will accept key plugs. The closest one can come to a receiver with decryption capabilities are some of the AOR receivers that have an optional voice de-inverter, but some commercial and most public safety equipment has moved beyond voice inversion privacy to more sophisticated modes.

 

[Septa3371CSX1]

Any reason why (besides listening to the salesperson and not the field users) this system would be 100% encrypted? Seems like someone is trying to hide something up there. I know there is quite a bit of drug activity up that way but I feel a few encrypted channels for those tactical operations would suffice.

 

[joeyvb]

Septa im not sure i know its for "confidentiality" and "not letting the criminal know your coming" and there is alot of drug activity here. and as far as i know there is no county tactical task force just PSP. all i now is its being sold and no expense is being spared when it comes to this new system by the county. the radio that i played with the encryption is on all the time not like the normal radios where it can be switched on and off. with the O and Ǿ switch.

 

[HM1529]

Septa im not sure i know its for "confidentiality" and "not letting the criminal know your coming" and there is alot of drug activity here. and as far as i know there is no county tactical task force just PSP. all i now is its being sold and no expense is being spared when it comes to this new system by the county. the radio that i played with the encryption is on all the time not like the normal radios where it can be switched on and off. with the O and Ǿ switch.

Can someone confirm whether this system is 100% encrypted for all services? Are fire and EMS operating on the new TRS?

 

[Septa3371CSX1]

Can someone confirm whether this system is 100% encrypted for all services? Are fire and EMS operating on the new TRS?

I might be up that way later today and will try to monitor and see what I can find.

 

[Septa3371CSX1]

Made it up to Pottsville briefly late yesterday afternoon. Wasn't really able to pick up anything on the trunked system. Seemed I was experiencing front end overload on 152.2125 (control channel) as I wasn't able to trunk track the system. I didn't bother to go into fine tune mode to figure out what adjacent channel was causing the issue. I have all three frequencies in the DB programmed in as system channels and was able to get something (encrypted) on the second channel but only by going to it on the TSYS settings. Otherwise no radio activity up that way on public safety channels other than 154.800 / 127.3 which I will look up in the database - heard this in Pottsville while doing a band search. (EDIT - 154.800 / 127.3 is Carbon County PD Channel 1 per the DB).

 

[hosehead88]

Schuylkill Fire talkgroups are now on broadcastify, provided by the county. No PD or EMS.

 

[joeyvb]

If that's the case might as well just remove encryption on the fire channels except for one. Also dispatch channel is changing to the old PD analog three and EMS analog 151.xxx here in the next few weeks so reprogram your scanners boys.

 

[W7FDX]

Which one of the Broadcastify feeds has the digital talk groups?

 

[theshadowman]

This one:
Schuylkill County Fire