Scout Camp Repeater

[KE8GPY]

I am looking for a little advice form you fine folks. We have a Boy Scout camp (Camp Lazarus) here locally that plays host to a variety of events through out the year to include our districts Cub Scout Day Camp. The past few years I have served as the Security and Communications director for the day camp. The camp had provided us with radios to use to communicate between stations and other staff. Sadly they are Baeofeng BF-888s. Simplex works ok for the front part of camp but there are several parts of camp ( mainly to the back side down in a valley ) that simplex will not work. Last year I obtained an XTS5000 and planed to use it as my radio at camp. When I went to figure out the frequencies, I was unable to locate a UHF frequency licensed to the camp not the scout. I did find 3 licensed VHF frequencies that belong to the scout council that owns and runs the camp. Turns out they had been just running the radios out of the box. I expressed the illegality of the situation (which is not good for scouts) and the camp master said he would look in to the licensing. So fast forward to last week when I had a meeting with the camp master to work on some planning for this years day camp. He had talked to council and they came to the decision that they want to install a VHF repeater on the camp to allow for better communications using their current license. I have been asked to try to come up with the most cost effective solution and have a few questions.

1) The 3 frequencies are in the VHF business band including at least one Itinerant frequency. Is it possible or is there a way to use 2 of these in the repeater with the 3rd as a simplex frequency, or do we need to trade in 2 and get a pair?

2) I have some feelers out to local counties to see if they might have an old VHF (former LEEDS state wide system) repeater that they will sell cheep or possibly donate to the camp. If I can't make that happen what would be the most cost effective way to set up a repeater? (Using two mobiles?)

The antenna is going to be mounted on a lodge about the center point of camp with the repeater being placed inside. I have also expressed that they need to get compliant radios.

Any advice would be appreciated...also any roasting.

 

[prcguy]

I'll take a stab here since nobody else has responded. I don't think repeaters are available for regular business type service (IB) in the VHF band. At least I don't know of any around here. Business related repeaters are typically found at UHF.

If by slim chance your VHF frequencies are available for business repeater use you would have to get the license modified for repeater use. A modification is usually much easier than getting the initial license.

 

[nd5y]

If this is the correct license then it is already for a DMR repeater:
ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional License - WQOB969 - BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA-SIMON KENTON COUNCIL

 

[KE8GPY]

If this is the correct license then it is already for a DMR repeater:
ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional License - WQOB969 - BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA-SIMON KENTON COUNCIL

That's the license.

 

[alcahuete]

If the license above is in fact your license, you only have one option as far as a repeater is concerned. The output goes on 152.3975, and the input needs to be on 157.6575. It's licensed for Mototrbo and analog FM.

If that isn't your license, it's a pretty good example to follow for getting your own, though you are going to run into frequency coordination costs if you go with other than itinerant frequencies. You can use repeaters on itinerant frequencies in certain instances (there are limitations), but having a repeater at a fixed location doesn't really comply with itinerant operation in the first place, either with a repeater or without. Itinerant frequencies are meant for use at multiple locations, statewide, or nationwide, for example.

 

[alcahuete]

If I can't make that happen what would be the most cost effective way to set up a repeater? (Using two mobiles?)

To specifically answer this question, you can get some good commercial used VHF repeaters on eBay for $400-$500. UHF is far more popular these days for business operation. The downside is that the majority of used equipment available is for UHF. The upside is that VHF equipment usually sells for FAR less than the UHF counterpart, because the market just isn't there. They are way harder to sell.

So while yes, building your own with two mobile radios would probably be cost effective, it might be cheaper or just as cheap to buy an actual repeater.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

VHF duplexers are going to be pricey..

 

[prcguy]

A mobile flat pack will work just fine with a 5MHz split at a site with no other radios around. Those are cheap.

VHF duplexers are going to be pricey..

 

[pboyd]

It really depends on how much you use the repeater as to what is going to be the most cost effective. Mobiles and portables can be made into a serviceable repeater assuming you aren't running them anywhere near full duty. As others have said you can get some VHF equipment fairly cheap these days.

You can get a Motorola XPR8300 for about $1000. It's two generations out of date, but it's still a good full duty cycle repeater. I'd personally recommend that for 2 reasons:
1. You'll have to troubleshoot it way less than a jury rigged 2 radio setup.
2. If you eventually upgrade to better radios with DMR capability you get two repeater channels for the price of one frequency.

 

[Motoballa]

Our Scout Camp repeaters over here in North Texas are all old Motorola M1225 mobile units outfitted into a repeater with a cheap duplexer. I don't know the cost we spent to make them but I know it was def super cheap compared to getting a full blown repeater already made.

Next time I'm down at one I'll see if I can get some pictures of the setup and prices if we still have that somewhere. Good to see that you're leading the camp in the right direction.

 

[KE8GPY]

The system is only going to get moderate use about 4 to 5 times a year during day camps and council events. The rest of the time it will be sporadic with the camp master using it to keep in touch with the individuals that help him with camp upkeep. I do not for see them going as fancy as digital any time soon so simple is the best. Forgive my ignorance but what is a Flat Pack?

 

[pboyd]

Flat pack is slang for a mobile duplexer. They are smaller and cheaper than rack mounts.

As for use it's more how much traffic they are handling when they are handling traffic than if they are used throughout the year. In any given 1 hour period, how much traffic do you think there will be? 5 minutes worth? 10? 30?

 

[speedway_navigator]

This is a flat pack duplexer, it notches out the RX freq from the xmtr input and TX freq from the receiver input.
Keeping the TX out of the RX input is more important but both are needed.
http://www.emrcorp.com/img/uploads/...exer_Mobile_150-160_MHz_Model_64316-1/MC(10B)

This is a pass notch duplexer akd band pass band reject. It's more expensive but has better performance. In your case with a 5 Mhz spread between freqs this type could be considered overkill for low power use.
http://www.emrcorp.com/img/uploads/...plexer_Pass_Notch_144-174_MHz_Model_64534/ENC

 

[KE8GPY]

Flat pack is slang for a mobile duplexer. They are smaller and cheaper than rack mounts.

As for use it's more how much traffic they are handling when they are handling traffic than if they are used throughout the year. In any given 1 hour period, how much traffic do you think there will be? 5 minutes worth? 10? 30?

I would say no more then 5 to 10 minutes worth of traffic per hour on average ( obviously dependent on which volunteers have radios and if we are working an emergency situation or not)

 

[pboyd]

I would say no more then 5 to 10 minutes worth of traffic per hour on average ( obviously dependent on which volunteers have radios and if we are working an emergency situation or not)

At that level of load you should be fine just using a couple of mobile radios as a repeater.

 

[radioman2001]

I don't really recommend this as a permanent solution, but in a pinch you can take 2 of CCR's put them in a piece of PVC pipe and haul it up a tree. At 4 or 5 watts at 5 mhz separation it should work. If your operational area is that small and you are only trying to get over a hill, put in a tree on top of the hill.

 

[TampaTyron]

Please..... use a quality purpose built repeater with quality duplexer, coax, lightning arrestor, and antenna. If there is the chance of liability/lawsuits flying around in case it doesn't work properly in an emergency, then I would strongly recommend quality gear. Also, I would recommend DMR operation as it gives you 2 repeated "channels". The downside is that the radios are more expensive than your BaoFangs. I would recommend a local dealer/radio shop be involved in the installation and commissioning of the system. I would recommend waterproof radios due to the environment. TT