SDS100/SDS200: SDS-100 Li-ion battery question

safetypro79

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Much has been written and discussed on the forum regarding Unidens lithium-ion battery for the SDS-100.

Has Uniden attempted to resolve these defective battery issues over the years?

Perhaps a Uniden liability issues for charging issues, I.e. swelling, overheating, etc. I’ve not heard of any fires (let’s hope not)

is there any warranty?

here is my two batteries one with the 100 from HRO two weeks ago, the other from Amazon with included the charger. Some sort of cryptic manufacturer date code I suspect on the label.

Just curious if anyone has contacted Uniden to see their take on these potentially serious issues.

so far, mine have charged fine I normally run the down as low as I can before charging.
 

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FKimble

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What voltage are running it down to? Most L ion batteries don't like going below 3.0 for long life. Some say ok down to 2.7 vdc. Thats a polymer, not up to stuff on those? Would like to think it will power itself off before going below the magic voltage!

Frank
 

n1chu

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I understand the LI-ion battery market to have many different grades of quality. Different factors are taken into consideration when building the battery such as longevity, stability, cost, etc. Uniden isn’t going to provide a battery that never has an issue with swelling, heating, fire or explosion because its cost would be prohibitive. I also believe the battery chemistry is such that the battery may get warm but not warm enough to start a fire, explode or cause heat related problems. They build a quality battery which has been specifically designed and meets the SDS100. They could provide a better battery but it would be overkill and drive the costs up. As long as what is designed is not violating any industry standards, and the battery provides what’s expected, it ships. Just because a battery is of lesser quality than the ones they would use in hospital equipment, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s inferior because we can’t compare battery usage until we understand the comparison must include the same use.

Uniden (or the battery manufacturer) factors in the expected failure rate for the batteries that fail and reviews how many failures actually occur and adjust accordingly. Since we haven’t heard of any change, we must assume the actual has not exceeded the expected. But Uniden is also tight lipped… there could be a change in the works but it won’t be known until Uniden is ready to announce it.I doubt this is the case however, the failure rate (at least those that are reported here) compared to the number of SDS100’s sold is very low. I imagine if the composition of the battery caused fires when it goes bad, there would be an immediate call for change. But I doubt there are any “potentially dangerous issues” as there’s always that liability lawsuit corporate lawyer keeping an eye on things.

As for discharging a LI-ion battery as low as possible, be careful not to fully discharge it. If that happens the battery can not be recharged, it’s time for the recycle bin.
 

TexTAC

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Is it ok to keep these batteries nearly fully charged? I have my SDS-100 plugged in about 99% of the time (light stays green) and I only run the battery for a few hours now and again when I take it with me someplace.
 

safetypro79

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Thanks so much N1CHU

your informative and interesting response makes total sense, in regards to published dialogue regarding the battery our forum enables comment, whereas SDS-100 owners that don’t use or are unaware of RR may or may not have battery issues. Truly a relative small amount of “issues” I will take your advice on using till depleted. My post above indicates the lowest Mv I can set, so I should be ok regarding total discharg.

Live Long and Prosper 🖖🏻

John
 

hiegtx

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Is it ok to keep these batteries nearly fully charged? I have my SDS-100 plugged in about 99% of the time (light stays green) and I only run the battery for a few hours now and again when I take it with me someplace.
Mine stays plugged in to external power at home, set to charge as needed, except when I'm out and running around the area. No issues found.
 

n1chu

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Li-ion batteries have excellent shelf life so leaving them in a charger isn’t necessary. There have been reports that the batteries should not be fully charged if placed in storage, maybe just half capacity. But that’s primarily for larger batteries, I guess the chemistry differs. (The FAA has regulations regarding how to transport the batteries at a lesser charge.) But the batteries for the SDS100 are designed to be “safe” and Uniden does not caution against leaving the battery pack in the radio while charging, or to charge spare batteries to a lesser level than full and only charge fully when they are intended to be placed into service. It’s best to rotate the batteries if you have more than one-eliminating the need to be concerned about how much they should be charged or leaving them in a charger. But as is my understanding, if you use the Uniden external charger or charge the batteries within the radio, there shouldn’t be any problem with fully charging.
 

thesoundman

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Mine stays plugged in to external power at home, set to charge as needed, except when I'm out and running around the area. No issues found.

How long have you had it / used it like this? I’m starting to look at an SDS100 purchase and trying to gauge whether I should be concerned about the batteries.
My engineer brain knows anecdotes won’t truly show the risk, but my human brain still feels reassured by them haha…
 

hiegtx

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How long have you had it / used it like this? I’m starting to look at an SDS100 purchase and trying to gauge whether I should be concerned about the batteries.
My engineer brain knows anecdotes won’t truly show the risk, but my human brain still feels reassured by them haha…
My SDS100 is one from the initial production run, purchased in 2018.

The original battery quit holding a full charge back in 2021. At that time, I purchased the external charger kit, which also includes a battery, plus I bought a second battery. To date, I have not had any type of failure that would concern me. As already noted, at home it is connected to an external power supply, with sufficient capacity to allow charging while also scanning. If I'm running errands or out just in the metro area, I use the scanner on battery alone. If I'm taking a longer trip, where I will be on the road for a longer time, then I connect the scanner to a power supply in my vehicle. The one I use also has a large current capacity, so that I can scan as well as charge the SDS100, as well as powering an additional scanner, usually one of the 436HPs.
 

W5ATX

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I am no where near an expert on this subject but will chime in with my past experience of having 2 uniden sds-100 batteries puff up on me and also being a radio controlled car enthusiast. These are Li-Ion POLYMER (LiPO) batteries. they have different behavior compared to Li-Ion's. The people that torture the LiPOs the most are the guys that race RC cars, planes, drones, etc. Check out some of their videos on youtube such as LiPO fires, tips, care, dangers, etc. they are charging up to 3C in some occasions (high current) and the voltage in each cell or "S" (example: 2S, 3S, and so on) must be precision monitored so that the "pack" of cells (2 or more) doesn't continue charging when one of the cells reaches 4.2V. every cell is monitored and the idea is to keep the cells matched when charging and not to over charge them. Some guys will toss their packs if there's a difference of 50mV between cells.

Yes the sds-100 does have a smart charge feature, but i'm not certain that it works 100%. you can enable in the menu to show the voltage, usb1, and usb2 current. I've seen the voltage go as high as 4.24V before the radio switches itself from red (charging) to green (not charging). a "storage" charge, or the level which is deemed the most safe is 3.7V, the nominal voltage of the pack. remember each LiPO "cell" is 3.7VDC. discharge is also critical like mentioned in a post above, if one of the cells goes below 3VDC and you don't charge it or bring it up to storage charge then it can have irreversible damage.

The most danger with these types of packs is overcharging. if held at max charge sometimes the packs will swell. if you short these out, or puncture them it will likely puff up and explode. again check youtube videos for LiPO behavior. I've been rolling the dice with these LiPO packs in the sds. I've had 2 swell up in less than a year, i'm sure you're familiar with my photos in a previous post. My sds100 LiPO sits in a metal can in the garage under a heat detector in the event it decides to take a poop.

I have 2 million dollar questions, 1) why does uniden continue to let these packs go out the door knowing there are multiple reports of swelling batteries, and 2) looking at the photos of my battery that swelled up so much that it split itself wide open - it appears that this is a 3S or 3-cell pack, but there are only 3 contacts on the top. there technically should be 4. Maybe this is why some (not all) packs are overcharging andsome (not all) are swelling? I stored a fully charged pack for a month with no swelling, and it's now sitting in the garage at storage voltage. If there are any changes i'll update my other post. To close, they also make LiPO storage bags so that when you're not using your remote controlled toy, you store the batteries in a bag. some are decent, but the best method to store a LiPO is in a metal container, like an empty tool box or a BBQ grill and placed somewhere that you don't mind smoke damage. Paranoid yet? :)

 

Ubbe

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2) looking at the photos of my battery that swelled up so much that it split itself wide open - it appears that this is a 3S or 3-cell pack, but there are only 3 contacts on the top. there technically should be 4.
It has one circuit board inside that has two 8-pin IC's and some supporting components. But each 3,7V cell are connected in parallell on the circuit board so there's no possibility to do any balancing of the cells, a huge mistake in the design and I've never seen that being done in any other multi cell pack.

It's only the middle cell that has swelled in my battery. The other two outer cells seems fine. As they are 3,7V each and work in parallel, it should be possible to cut out the middle cell and run in reduces capacity mode with my battery. The whole package are held together by double sided sticky tape so its fairly easy to remove the middle cell.

/Ubbe
 

W5ATX

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It has one circuit board inside that has two 8-pin IC's and some supporting components. But each 3,7V cell are connected in parallell on the circuit board so there's no possibility to do any balancing of the cells, a huge mistake in the design and I've never seen that being done in any other multi cell pack.

It's only the middle cell that has swelled in my battery. The other two outer cells seems fine. As they are 3,7V each and work in parallel, it should be possible to cut out the middle cell and run in reduces capacity mode with my battery. The whole package are held together by double sided sticky tape so its fairly easy to remove the middle cell.

/Ubbe

WOW! i figured it was in parallel to keep the voltage at 3.7vdc, the IC's have to do some sort of constant current / constant voltage charging i'd assume, or maybe it actively disconnects them from being in parallel and then charges each cell individually and monitors it's charge state. if they are indeed charging in parallel then all it takes it for one cell to be stubborn and reject current flow and whamo, it gets dumped into the other cell(s), overcharges them, and then it starts to swell.

My 1st battery pack that is split wide open is sitting outside in the bbq pit. the voltage measures zero across all three pins but that doesnt mean it's not disconnected from the IC inside. I may take it apart later today and snap some photos. I really like my sds100 even with all it's flaws, i used it a few days ago to check a new site that's still not on the air yet, but man I dont think i'll be putting the battery in this thing and leaving it on the desk any time soon. all it takes is 1 fire and it's lawsuit time. I was thinking of starting a new thread and having people that have puffy batteries upload a photo, I did a quick search of the few threads on this forum and have about 20 photos of different sds100 batteries that have swelled up, and those are just the ones that have chimed in on this website! o_O
 

thesoundman

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It has one circuit board inside that has two 8-pin IC's and some supporting components. But each 3,7V cell are connected in parallell on the circuit board so there's no possibility to do any balancing of the cells, a huge mistake in the design and I've never seen that being done in any other multi cell pack.

Who doesn’t love sacrificing safety for $$ to the bottom line? It’s mind blowing that these would be designed without cell balancing capability.

I wonder if a company like this would design a safer aftermarket replacement.
 

n1chu

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Who doesn’t love sacrificing safety for $$ to the bottom line? It’s mind blowing that these would be designed without cell balancing capability.

I wonder if a company like this would design a safer aftermarket replacement.
Can’t you run it using the USB charge cord without the battery in the house?
 

MattF_NorCal

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Can’t you run it using the USB charge cord without the battery in the house?
Yep, and this is the only way I've been powering my SDS100 at home after the battery swelled to the point that the battery cover nearly popped off on its own. (This was the higher-capacity replacement battery Uniden sent me after I purchased the scanner, not the one that originally came with it.)
 
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