SDS 100 / SDS 200

[chazcarly]

Question, so is it safe to say you can program Conventional and trunked together in the same system in the same favorite list, and do you have to have them in any kind of special order?? is there a right way to do this.

I'm used to Banks and channels....

Still learning the whole dynamic memory thing...and Sentinel programing thing.

Thank You.

 

[jtwalker]

Can’t be in the same system but can be in same favorites list.

 

[chazcarly]

Can’t be in the same system but can be in same favorites list.

Thank You. wasn't sure about having them in the same favorites list.

 

[drdispatch]

You can even assign them the same System Quick Key, but they have to be programmed as separate systems.
When you program a system, the radio has to "know" what kind of system it is; conventional, P25, DMR, EDACS, etc. If you program a system from scratch, you have to tell it. If you use programming software, that info is sent to the scanner automatically when you append anything from that system in the database to the Favorites List.

 

[chazcarly]

So, this system is not good?

 

[drdispatch]

So, this system is not good?

It looks okay to me.
The configuration shown will scan all those systems all the time. If you want to only scan one or some of those systems at a time, you should assign them Quick Keys.

 

[chazcarly]

But it is system with with DMR and CONVENTIONAL all in the same system? That is ok?

It looks okay to me.
The configuration shown will scan all those systems all the time. If you want to only scan one or some of those systems at a time, you should assign them Quick Keys.

But it is a system that has both, DMR and Conventional all in the same system. That is aloud? I’m confused. What about P25.

 

[jtwalker]

You asked originally about mixing trunked and conventional in a system, not about mixing various types of conventional within a system.

What about P25 … again same thing applies. P25 conventional or P25 trunked?

 

[hiegtx]

But it is system with with DMR and CONVENTIONAL all in the same system? That is ok?

But it is a system that has both, DMR and Conventional all in the same system. That is aloud? I’m confused. What about P25.

You can mix & match conventional channel modes in the same system. Mixing a selection of analog channels, with their respective PL or DCS settings, & digital channels with their NAC codes are not a problem.

While you cam also throw in DMR channels with their Color Code, that might not result in what you intended. For the agency in your screen shot, Pequannock, you have the same frequency, 453.025 listed twice.


The first line shows (in the database) as TGID 3111, Slot 1, tagged as Fire Dispatch. You have it as Fire Tac. Not a deal killer, but not really correct,

For the second line entry, the same frequency, 453.025, is listed, same CC, but TGID 3112 being used for Fire Talk around (On scene Ops). But when programmed this way (in a conventional system), you'll never see the talkgroup nor the Slot.

From the database page:


When entering a DMR frequency in a Conventional channel system, you cannot specify a Talkgroup, nor a slot number. Apparently, both of these are listed as using Slot 1, but different talkgroups. When scanning that system, and the scanner picks up activity, you would not be able to know whether intended usage is for Fire Response, or On-Scene. The only way you can break those uses out & have the scanner treat them as shown in the database is to program that frequency into a One Frequency Trunked system (OFT), Doing it in an OFT, then you can correctly see which mode is currently in use, along with the talkgroup and Slot.

I see that you have those two channels entered a second time, farther down in the Department. Here again, you would not be able to tell, at first glance, what type of usage is intended.

You have the same issue with two other paired channels.

Frequency 453.800 you have programmed this way:

Same frequency, and Color Code, listed twice, but with different uses. Once again, the same frequency, in the database, is used twice, but with separate talkgroups:

Here again, you would be able to hear either use, but you would not know what the correct use is, since both will display the same when your scanner stops on the frequency. If programmed as an OFT, then you can see exactly which channel is in use, along with the TGID and Slot.

Frequency 453.475 actually has three different uses, one for Police Tactical, and two different Public Works usages. As programmed currently, you'll only see the one description, not being able to see in the display what was intended.

As listed on the database:

This should also be programmed as an OFT. That way you can link the talkgroup to the transmission. You can't do that if programmed as conventional channels.

 

[Ensnared]

Question, so is it safe to say you can program Conventional and trunked together in the same system in the same favorite list, and do you have to have them in any kind of special order?? is there a right way to do this.

I'm used to Banks and channels....

Still learning the whole dynamic memory thing...and Sentinel programing thing.

Thank You.

It took some time to figure out how to manipulate the radio to do what I want. Now, I have mine set up like a banked scanner.

For each Favorite I create, I put a bracketed number in front so that I can toggle the "Favorite" on or off. Instead of "Favorite", you can look at this as a bank, see bracket [35] in the attached. The first item, TXWRN talk groups (channels) are associated with a digital trunking system.

Below, I have "conventional" frequencies. Conventional frequencies are the same as the banked scanners, so-to-speak.

Hence, I have mixed the two.

In addition to numbering my Favorites in this fashion, I use "start up configuration keys to load a group of Favorites (like on a long trip).

 

[ofd8001]

A "Department" is equivalent to a "Bank" of conventional channels. A system is kind of like a collection of one or more "banks". Then a Favorites List is yet a bigger bank of Systems.

Trunked is a little different. You'd have to have a trunked bank and then a separate conventional bank. In this situation it is separate systems. (That's because of different parameters.)

 

[chazcarly]

You can mix & match conventional channel modes in the same system. Mixing a selection of analog channels, with their respective PL or DCS settings, & digital channels with their NAC codes are not a problem.

While you cam also throw in DMR channels with their Color Code, that might not result in what you intended. For the agency in your screen shot, Pequannock, you have the same frequency, 453.025 listed twice.
View attachment 135816

The first line shows (in the database) as TGID 3111, Slot 1, tagged as Fire Dispatch. You have it as Fire Tac. Not a deal killer, but not really correct,

For the second line entry, the same frequency, 453.025, is listed, same CC, but TGID 3112 being used for Fire Talk around (On scene Ops). But when programmed this way (in a conventional system), you'll never see the talkgroup nor the Slot.

From the database page:
View attachment 135817

When entering a DMR frequency in a Conventional channel system, you cannot specify a Talkgroup, nor a slot number. Apparently, both of these are listed as using Slot 1, but different talkgroups. When scanning that system, and the scanner picks up activity, you would not be able to know whether intended usage is for Fire Response, or On-Scene. The only way you can break those uses out & have the scanner treat them as shown in the database is to program that frequency into a One Frequency Trunked system (OFT), Doing it in an OFT, then you can correctly see which mode is currently in use, along with the talkgroup and Slot.

I see that you have those two channels entered a second time, farther down in the Department. Here again, you would not be able to tell, at first glance, what type of usage is intended.

You have the same issue with two other paired channels.

Frequency 453.800 you have programmed this way:
View attachment 135812
Same frequency, and Color Code, listed twice, but with different uses. Once again, the same frequency, in the database, is used twice, but with separate talkgroups:
View attachment 135813
Here again, you would be able to hear either use, but you would not know what the correct use is, since both will display the same when your scanner stops on the frequency. If programmed as an OFT, then you can see exactly which channel is in use, along with the TGID and Slot.

Frequency 453.475 actually has three different uses, one for Police Tactical, and two different Public Works usages. As programmed currently, you'll only see the one description, not being able to see in the display what was intended.
View attachment 135814
As listed on the database:
View attachment 135815
This should also be programmed as an OFT. That way you can link the talkgroup to the transmission. You can't do that if programmed as conventional channels.

Thank You for taking the time and explaining it. I did not know that you can program something two different ways. I would just append it to my favorites list from sentinel and however it did it I thought it was ok. So let me get this straight...... with DMR I should always do an OFT, is that the correct way.

 

[hiegtx]

Thank You for taking the time and explaining it. I did not know that you can program something two different ways. I would just append it to my favorites list from sentinel and however it did it I thought it was ok. So let me get this straight...... with DMR I should always do an OFT, is that the correct way.

I would not necessarily say that you always should program DMR channels as OFTs. I would phrase it as that you can program single DMR channels as OFT systems. Obviously, a true DMR trunked system, with two or more frequencies needs to be programmed as trunked system (not OFT).

However, in a situation such as you have for Pequannock, where a single frequency is used for two or more different purposes. then, yes, you are better off programming as a One Frequency Trunked system. In your case, one frequency, 453.025, is used for two different channels, with a specific talkgroups for each usage. And 453.475, that is used three different ways, once for your PD, the other two channels for public works. When programmed as an OFT system, not only can you program the Talkgroup, you can also specify the Slot. You can't specify TGID nor Slot when programmed as a straight conventional channel.

For these two frequencies, I would enter them into an OFT system, so that you can specify talkgroup for each channel. While the database indicates Slot 1 for both channels on 453.050 (Fire Response and Fire Talkaround), I would omit the slot when setting up the OFT. If both channels only used Slot 1 (that's how the database shows it), then only one conversation could occur at any one time. Leaving the Slot blank in an OFT system, the scanner will focus on the talkgroup, which is what you want.

For 453.475, used for both PD as well as Public Works, the database shows Slot 1 for Police Tactical, and Slot 2 for the first Public Works channel. For the Public Works 'Talkaround' channel, the slot is not specified in the database. Here again, I would not program the slot. The talkgroups will suffice to separate the different uses.

I have seen some public safety agencies, often smaller towns that use DMR, use the same TGID for both Fire and Police. But these normally specify that while the talkgroup is the same for both, the Fire Department shows, for example, Slot 1, and the PD on Slot two. On an OFT system, tou would use the same talkgroup on each channel, but specify Fire as using Slot 1, and PD on Slot 2. Here's one example in Arkansas, in this case for two Police channels:


As in your case, simply appending from the database in Sentinel, it does not display any TGID or Slot information. However, if using ProScan for importing from the RadioReference database, you gt a pop-up message, asking if you want to enter the channel as in an OFT system. (I don't have ARC-536, so I don't know whether of not an OFT option is suggested.)

 

[chazcarly]

So I have another question about DMR Conventional.......Kinnelon Boro PD in the Morris County NJ, DB has only one PD listed on the homepage.

But If I click on DMR Conventional I get Sites and talk group id's


So do I program this with all the site's and then the Law and the Emergency TG id's?
Sorry to be a pain in the BUTTT

 

[hiegtx]

So I have another question about DMR Conventional.......Kinnelon Boro PD in the Morris County NJ, DB has only one PD listed on the homepage.
View attachment 136134
But If I click on DMR Conventional I get Sites and talk group id's
View attachment 136135
View attachment 136136
So do I program this with all the site's and then the Law and the Emergency TG id's?
Sorry to be a pain in the BUTTT

Program that single frequency for Police Channel 7 as an OFT.

For the Kinnelon Boro system, that's a collection of single frequencies that are used as multiple sites. I would simply append that system from the main database (in Sentinel) to your Favorites list. The database will append it as an OFT with 6 sites (each frequency is treated as a single site in an One Frequency Trunked system).


If it were me, I would also set that appended system to use ID Search instead of ID Scan. There may well be additional talkgroups in use that have not been submitted to the database. Some of then could, of course, be public works or the water dept., which might not be of interest. But you can enter any new ones found, then set them as Avoid, so that it's still looking for any new talkgroups that pop up; some of any 'new' ones might be of interest to you.

 

[chazcarly]

Program that single frequency for Police Channel 7 as an OFT.

For the Kinnelon Boro system, that's a collection of single frequencies that are used as multiple sites. I would simply append that system from the main database (in Sentinel) to your Favorites list. The database will append it as an OFT with 6 sites (each frequency is treated as a single site in an One Frequency Trunked system).
View attachment 136144

If it were me, I would also set that appended system to use ID Search instead of ID Scan. There may well be additional talkgroups in use that have not been submitted to the database. Some of then could, of course, be public works or the water dept., which might not be of interest. But you can enter any new ones found, then set them as Avoid, so that it's still looking for any new talkgroups that pop up; some of any 'new' ones might be of interest to you.

Thank You Steve, I'll keep you posted how I make out.

 

[chazcarly]

What do you set HOLD time to? or do you just leave it at default.

 

[hiegtx]

What do you set HOLD time to? or do you just leave it at default.

In most cases, I do not use a Hold time on a system. But, you might use a 1 or two second hold so that the scanner will dwell on that system a little longer, while you try to confirm if any other talkgroups appear on any of those frequencies. Once you're reasonably sure that you have it nailed, I'd remove any hold & just let it scan along with whatever else you have programmed.

As I already suggested, do set it to ID Search instead of ID Scan. That way, any additional talkgroups (not currently in the database) will be received.

 

[dave3825]

I have been putting numbers in for a long time except I do fav list, system, dept and site. I also don't use the brackets as you gain 2 more spaces without them.