SDS-200 How to search for tone out tones

[W2IRT]

I have my gear set up to decode the 2-tone codes for our local FD and EMS squad, but the VHF-Hi frequency they operate on is common in this part of the state for fire paging, and with my external antenna, I'd like to decode the tones for other departments. My local department is using CTCSS, so obviously I'll need to somehow setup the SDS200 into carrier squelch mode for this, but I'm not sure how to do it.

I know what the process is for monitoring known FD tones (I have one radio dedicated to that), so it's just a matter of figuring out how to decode unknown pairs. I am using Proscan and the SDS200.

 

[JethrowJohnson]

If you go into the menu to the channel(s) that use CTCSS, you can set those under Audio Type.

 

[doctordialtone]

figuring out how to decode unknown pairs.

You're talking about Tone Out tones which are different from Squelch Tones.

This explains how to search for two-tone pairs.

This explains Squelch Tones.

and how to enter the tones.

 

[W2IRT]

You're talking about Tone Out tones which are different from Squelch Tones.

I am very well aware of these. What I am saying is that to receive my local fire departments I am monitoring a VHF-Hi RF frequency, and the towns send their 2-tone sequential tones on that frequency along with a CTCSS of 141.3. I have "tone-out for standby" set up with the toneout A-B tones for each department I wish to monitor. Other departments in my area also use the same RF frequency (158.94) to page their volunteer fire departments, but they are transmitting both different CTCSS tones and sending different 2-tone sequential tones.

What I need to do is set up to search 158.940, ignore any CTCSS/DCS tones, and to log/report the A- and B-tones used by those unknown departments. I would like to record audio to go along with these. Am I a bit clearer here in what I am trying to accomplish? I did it many years ago with my 996xt to find my local FD's tones, but a) I forgot the process I used, and b) it wasn't on a SDS series.

I HAVE read the "easier to read" manual and it's anything but. It seems to cover setting up to decode known pairs (which I am doing, and it works fine), but not how to search for unknown pairs!

 

[hill]

You can monitor the frequency without using the CTCSS tones.

Without using any CTCSS tones by having the scanner in Carrier Squelch (CSQ) you will just receive all on the frequency if they are multiple users on it you will hear all.

 

[dave3825]

What I am saying is that to receive my local fire departments I am monitoring a VHF-Hi RF frequency, and the towns send their 2-tone sequential tones on that frequency along with a CTCSS of 141.3. I have "tone-out for standby" set up with the toneout A-B tones for each department I wish to monitor.

Other departments in my area also use the same RF frequency (158.94) to page their volunteer fire departments, but they are transmitting both different CTCSS tones and sending different 2-tone sequential tones.

So all the depts app bang out on 158.940, right?

What I need to do is set up to search 158.940, ignore any CTCSS/DCS tones, and to log/report the A- and B-tones used by those unknown departments. I would like to record audio to go along with these. Am I a bit clearer here in what I am trying to accomplish?

Just park on 158.940. Then (to remove 141.3 temporarily) hit E--Edit Current Channel--Set Audio Type--Analog Only---Set Ctcss/Dcs to Search. Then if you have @ProScan, let it log and record all day until you retrieve all the a b tones. Proscan will also log any ctcss/dcs it sees as well and then if you choose to monitor those depts, you will have those tones as well as the a-b. If the ctcss/dcs tones are not listed in the db, you could make a submission.






And the only thing thats different is the ctcss/dcs and the a b for each dept, right?

 

[W2IRT]

So all the depts app bang out on 158.940, right?
And the only thing thats different is the ctcss/dcs and the a b for each dept, right?

That is correct. That frequency is shared by about a dozen departments in range of my 40' discone antenna. There are other local FDs that tone out on different RF frequencies, and years ago I found all of those. However my own town's vollies are toned out on 158.94, and I have those tones already on 24/7 on my old 996. I'm just now curious about who else also dispatches on that frequency and what their tones are.

Now, using ProScan, how do I log all the A/B tones found on that frequency? In this evening's test only one department was logged.

 

[dave3825]

Around me, most of the depts. bang out on their own uhf freqs and a b is decently documented. When I was trying to get one or two, I had Proscan set up to monitor and record conventional freqs. When I heard calls that were of interest, I played the recordings and used an app on the phone called Pano Tuner. It displays tones it hears. Son use it for Trumpet but its good for FTO.

To be honest, I used Proscan a while ago and do remember there is a Fire Tone Out Logger tab but don't remember if the scanner needs to be in tone out standby or if you sit on the said freq. I am actually going to leave this on and see what it does.





edit, just tried scanning conventional and it did not work. Think it needs to be in FTO standby.


.

 

[ProScan]

To be honest, I used Proscan a while ago and do remember there is a Fire Tone Out Logger tab but don't remember if the scanner needs to be in tone out standby or if you sit on the said freq.

View attachment 140683



edit, just tried scanning conventional and it did not work. Think it needs to be in FTO standby.


.

That sounds right. I haven't used FTO in years but I know that for the Fire Tone-Out grid to work, the scanner needs to be in Tone-Out Standby. I'm not sure about Tone-Out Search mode offhand. {edit} I see you're testing the FTO tone search.

 

[W2IRT]

That sounds right. I haven't used FTO in years but I know that for the Fire Tone-Out grid to work, the scanner needs to be in Tone-Out Standby. I'm not sure about Tone-Out Search mode offhand.

And that's the issue I'm having, Bob. It absolutely works in tone-out standby with known tones (even though I have another radio dedicated to that function). It's the process for discovering new 2-tone pairs that's eluding me.

 

[ProScan]

I am very well aware of these. What I am saying is that to receive my local fire departments I am monitoring a VHF-Hi RF frequency, and the towns send their 2-tone sequential tones on that frequency along with a CTCSS of 141.3. I have "tone-out for standby" set up with the toneout A-B tones for each department I wish to monitor. Other departments in my area also use the same RF frequency (158.94) to page their volunteer fire departments, but they are transmitting both different CTCSS tones and sending different 2-tone sequential tones.

What I need to do is set up to search 158.940, ignore any CTCSS/DCS tones, and to log/report the A- and B-tones used by those unknown departments. I would like to record audio to go along with these. Am I a bit clearer here in what I am trying to accomplish? I did it many years ago with my 996xt to find my local FD's tones, but a) I forgot the process I used, and b) it wasn't on a SDS series.

I don't think the scanner FTO mode cares about the CTCSS tones so I wouldn't be concerned with that.

I HAVE read the "easier to read" manual and it's anything but. It seems to cover setting up to decode known pairs (which I am doing, and it works fine), but not how to search for unknown pairs!

And that's the issue I'm having, Bob. It absolutely works in tone-out standby with known tones (even though I have another radio dedicated to that function). It's the process for discovering new 2-tone pairs that's eluding me.

Per the Easier to Read SDS-100/200 Digital Scanner Manual
Set Tone To search for tones, leave the tones for A and B at 0.

 

[policefreak]

So I don't think there's a way on the scanner to tell you during each dispatch that Tone A is 550 and Tone B is 1222. But what you can do and what I often do is record the audio on my SDS scanner. Then when I go back and play it, if there is a company being dispatched that I need the tone frequencies for I have a free app downloaded on my phone called Spectroid. As I play the tone pair recording I have the app open, my phone near the scanner, and as the tones go off the app will tell me what frequency each Tone is with very good accuracy. I've programmed lots of unication pagers this way before.

 

[dave3825]

That's pretty much what I said in post 8, just using a different app.

So I don't think there's a way on the scanner to tell you during each dispatch that Tone A is 550 and Tone B is 1222.

Sds scanners will tell you the tones via Tone Out Search.

Marks Scanners Says,,,,

Your scanner can be set to respond to fire tone-outs, a system comprised of standardized two-tone sequential paging, short one-tone paging, and long group tone paging.
Fire-Tone-Out will monitor up to 32 different channels for paging tones (two-tone sequential, single tone, and group tone).
For more information on Fire Tone-Out see this webpage at Radio Reference.​

Tone-Out Standby Mode is used if you use programmed tones.

Tone-Out Search Mode is used if you don’t know the tones.

But in the end, to use the feature, you need to tie up the scanner all day. It is in my opinion just better to have the freqs of interest set up, scanning/logging and recording for playback.

And by me (might be the same elsewhere) there are different a b tones for different events like a structure fire will have 1 set while general alarms or car crashes will have another set.

 

[W2IRT]

But in the end, to use the feature, you need to tie up the scanner all day. It is in my opinion just better to have the freqs of interest set up, scanning/logging and recording for playback.

The plan is to monitor this frequency for a few days, when I'm away on business or doing otherwise away from the radio. It's more curiosity than anything else.

 

[dave3825]

The one time I did it was a while ago but you want to set up FTO Standby in the scanner since that searches for tones and let it run on 158.940. Pretty sure it will not be specific to 141.3, as I do not see anywhere to input that in that mode so any a b on the freq should be logged. Then I am pretty sure you hit the FTO Logging tab in Proscan. I could be wrong and it is still morning.

 

[W2IRT]

The one time I did it was a while ago but you want to set up FTO Standby in the scanner since that searches for tones and let it run on 158.940. Pretty sure it will not be specific to 141.3, as I do not see anywhere to input that in that mode so any a b on the freq should be logged. Then I am pretty sure you hit the FTO Logging tab in Proscan. I could be wrong and it is still morning.

I have vague memories of doing this when I got my 996 a very long time ago and it's the dedicated FTO monitor for my town—I wish I could monitor two frequencies since the other neighboring town tones out on a UHF frequency, and I don't want to dedicate another radio to that one. But it's just been so long and the process is vague. I will try standby with tones 0/0 and see what that yields when all the vollies do their tests around 6pm.

 

[dave3825]

I will try standby with tones 0/0 and see what that yields when all the vollies do their tests around 6pm.

So do you guys just have a b tone to set off pagers regardless of the nature of the call? Many of our depts have specific a b tones relating to the call. No need to have all your guys come in for a medic call.

Either way, letting it run on the 6 pm test will ensure its doing what it should.

 

[W2IRT]

So do you guys just have a b tone to set off pagers regardless of the nature of the call? Many of our depts have specific a b tones relating to the call. No need to have all your guys come in for a medic call.

From what I can tell, each department has just one set of tones for fire, and another for ambulance. Our volly EMS team has two sets of tones (tone A is the same, tone B is different), but they're always sent together. I've never heard just the one pair transmitted.

 

[N9JIG]

To see what Two-Tone codes are being used set the radio to Tone Out Search, this is done easily by programming a tone out on the RF freq (158.940) and set the A and B Tones both to 0 (Zero). Then just park on that freq in the Tone Out mode and ProScan will log the received tone out codes.

Be advised that decoding off a scanner is not going to be perfect, it will likely be off a Hz. or 2, the difference will go higher as the tone freq does.

Also when setting up Tone Out codes the PL or DPL codes are ignored, so don't sweat them.

 

[W2IRT]

To see what Two-Tone codes are being used set the radio to Tone Out Search, this is done easily by programming a tone out on the RF freq (158.940) and set the A and B Tones both to 0 (Zero). Then just park on that freq in the Tone Out mode and ProScan will log the received tone out codes.

Be advised that decoding off a scanner is not going to be perfect, it will likely be off a Hz. or 2, the difference will go higher as the tone freq does.

Also when setting up Tone Out codes the PL or DPL codes are ignored, so don't sweat them.

Got it. It's working now and decoding fine.

Next step is getting audio out of the radio for recording. None of the input sound devices on the audio tab work with the SDS200. It's connected via front panel USB. I'm able to control the radio and program in with Proscan, but it's not capturing audio.