SDS100/200 filter settings

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trentbob

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Yep, check out post number two, we're basically saying the same thing but rather than set filters in Sentinel my method does it on the radio using real-time results from RSSI, noise and error rate sampling Global filters. When you find the best one you return Global to default normal and then drill down to the site options or Department options.:)

Actually that looks like it's verbatim from Wiki and Paul's notes? Got it.
 

trentbob

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That's the ticket, that's what I was referring to. Using the radios was so much more fun and enriched when Paul was staying with it and making improvements and problem-solving as issues arose. That's priceless and can never be duplicated.

To think it's about two months shy of a year now that he's been gone. Tremendous void left. He really hit it out of the park on his last project, that's for sure.
 

garys

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I know all of that, but thank you anyway. I thought that trentbob was referring to a more technical document for utilizing the filters. I've done a lot of blind (more or less) experimenting with some good results and some not to good results.

Mot of the time I used Normal, but there are a couple of systems that seem to receive better with Invert. I've not found anything beneficial with either of the "wide" settings.

Turning them off does make some systems worse, and has not improved any systems that I've tried it on.

Of course someone else could have a SDS scanner in a similar install to mine and have different results. Definitely no "one size fits all" solution here.

Filter settings are available in both Sentinel (in the favorites list editor),

and in the scanner's menu system:

MENU --> SETTINGS --> GLOBAL AUTO FILTER
⦁ Normal (always use High Pass Filter)
⦁ Invert (always use inverted HPF)
⦁ Auto (try HPF then if no signal detected to open squelch, try inverted HPF)
Note: If Auto is selected, conventional scan and search speed will be greatly slowed, as every frequency on which a signal is not detected on first pass will be rescanned using the inverted HPF setting.

MENU --> MANAGE FAVORITES --> REVIEW/EDIT SYSTEM --> EDIT SITE --> SET FILTER (Setting menu for trunked systems)
⦁ Global (use the setting from GLOBAL AUTO FILTER)
⦁ Normal
⦁ Invert
⦁ Auto

MENU --> MANAGE FAVORITES --> REVIEW/EDIT SYSTEM --> EDIT DEPARTMENT --> SET FILTER (Setting menu for conventional systems)
⦁ Global (use the setting from GLOBAL AUTO FILTER)
⦁ Normal
⦁ Invert
⦁ Auto

MENU --> SRCH/CLOCALL OPT --> SET FILTER (Setting menu for Close Call and Search)
⦁ Global (use the setting from GLOBAL AUTO FILTER)
⦁ Normal
⦁ Invert
⦁ Auto
 

trentbob

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Filter settings are available in both Sentinel (in the favorites list editor),

and in the scanner's menu system:

MENU --> SETTINGS --> GLOBAL AUTO FILTER
⦁ Normal (always use High Pass Filter)
⦁ Invert (always use inverted HPF)
⦁ Auto (try HPF then if no signal detected to open squelch, try inverted HPF)
Note: If Auto is selected, conventional scan and search speed will be greatly slowed, as every frequency on which a signal is not detected on first pass will be rescanned using the inverted HPF setting.

MENU --> MANAGE FAVORITES --> REVIEW/EDIT SYSTEM --> EDIT SITE --> SET FILTER (Setting menu for trunked systems)
⦁ Global (use the setting from GLOBAL AUTO FILTER)
⦁ Normal
⦁ Invert
⦁ Auto

MENU --> MANAGE FAVORITES --> REVIEW/EDIT SYSTEM --> EDIT DEPARTMENT --> SET FILTER (Setting menu for conventional systems)
⦁ Global (use the setting from GLOBAL AUTO FILTER)
⦁ Normal
⦁ Invert
⦁ Auto

MENU --> SRCH/CLOCALL OPT --> SET FILTER (Setting menu for Close Call and Search)
⦁ Global (use the setting from GLOBAL AUTO FILTER)
⦁ Normal
⦁ Invert
⦁ Auto
I know all of that, but thank you anyway. I thought that trentbob was referring to a more technical document for utilizing the filters. I've done a lot of blind (more or less) experimenting with some good results and some not to good results.

Mot of the time I used Normal, but there are a couple of systems that seem to receive better with Invert. I've not found anything beneficial with either of the "wide" settings.

Turning them off does make some systems worse, and has not improved any systems that I've tried it on.

Of course someone else could have a SDS scanner in a similar install to mine and have different results. Definitely no "one size fits all" solution here.
Yep, the firmware update notes are always there to see it's just been so long since we've seen anything new.

As I think back there might be more on the topic for you to read. You might want to check the archives for the threads referring to specific firmware updates and Paul would always participate in those threads, If you check the archives you actually may find more documentation. The method I used I just tried to keep it organized and consistent so as to get predictable results. One thing's for sure, the filters helped my radios on both simulcast systems and conventional objects.
 

jpb

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@trentbob Sorry if this topic has worn everybody down, but I have read tons of RR posts, and still have no idea what what the BASELINE best filter setting is. I have no idea how to apply it to multiple favorites lists without having to edit EVERY list. I have opened the HPD and HPE files to look for global replacements.

I may be totally missing the target. I can suck up tweaking each favorite list, but not knowing the optimal baseline is shooting from a moving platform. Since the implementation of filters, it is so slow that I can read each scanned conventional frequency on the SDS100 screen. That is how slow scanning had become.

Can anyone help with a good launch point for filters and how to deploy that setting throughout the lists?
 

sonm10

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Everyone's situation will be different. It all depends upon LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION

However, my personal preference, I use normal for anything nearby (<10 miles) and Wide Auto for anything farther away (>10 miles)
That's what works for me. Your situation might be different
 

trentbob

W3BUX- Bucks County, PA
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@trentbob Sorry if this topic has worn everybody down, but I have read tons of RR posts, and still have no idea what what the BASELINE best filter setting is. I have no idea how to apply it to multiple favorites lists without having to edit EVERY list. I have opened the HPD and HPE files to look for global replacements.

I may be totally missing the target. I can suck up tweaking each favorite list, but not knowing the optimal baseline is shooting from a moving platform. Since the implementation of filters, it is so slow that I can read each scanned conventional frequency on the SDS100 screen. That is how slow scanning had become.

Can anyone help with a good launch point for filters and how to deploy that setting throughout the lists?
To answer your question specifically. Just leave everything as default which means all objects are set to Global. Global filters are set to normal by default, you can kind of look at normal like it's a universal or overall general filter. So by doing nothing to your radio with regards to filters, that's where your radio stands. Filter requirements are going to be different for everybody depending on your location and RF environment. What works for one person doesn't mean it's going to work for you. There is no standard or preset guidelines.

The global filters are used to sample reception real-time on the radio while you assess RSSI, noise and error rates. It's very easy and quick to go into settings and go right to global filters just to sample a system or conventional frequency. If you find a certain filter works better than another then go back into global filters and return it to normal filter, don't leave it on that new filter setting as it may compromise other objects who work well on default or normal.

After you return Global to normal then go into the site or sites of the system you sampled and add that filter you found out to be more favorable on your global sampling to the sites, If it's a conventional frequency go to department options of that frequency and apply the filter you found to be more favorable in your global sampling to that department. It will affect every conventional frequency in that department, you cannot add a filter to just one frequency but it often works out as all the frequencies in that department usually call for the same filter.

Now you will have every object still on normal filter because that's what global is set to but the system or conventional frequency you went directly in and changed will now be on the new filter permanently, not global or normal.

You're really sampling wide normal, invert, and wide invert because you already know what normal does as it is default. You can try no filter at all and see if that helps. You can also toggle function 7 while sitting on a conventional frequency, sometimes ifx will help, if it doesn't toggle It Off. Avoid the auto filters as they sample every object with every filter and slow scanning way down and you never know what filter did the trick anyway.

I'm sure people all have their own way of doing it but I found this to be very consistent and accurate because you are using real-time results of RSSI, noise and error rate.

Make sure to hook up to Sentinel or whatever and transfer the card information into your profile first thing so as to preserve any changes you made directly on the radio regarding the filters. Use a pencil and paper when you're recording RSSI, noise and error rates while doing your sampling and make sure to put the filter indicator on your display.

Once you get the hang of it, it goes very quick and easy.
 
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werinshades

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@trentbob Sorry if this topic has worn everybody down, but I have read tons of RR posts, and still have no idea what what the BASELINE best filter setting is. I have no idea how to apply it to multiple favorites lists without having to edit EVERY list. I have opened the HPD and HPE files to look for global replacements.

I may be totally missing the target. I can suck up tweaking each favorite list, but not knowing the optimal baseline is shooting from a moving platform. Since the implementation of filters, it is so slow that I can read each scanned conventional frequency on the SDS100 screen. That is how slow scanning had become.

Can anyone help with a good launch point for filters and how to deploy that setting throughout the lists?

Don't get caught up in all the "hype" here. You'll read about Noise Values, RSSI, Digital Decode settings etc. and feel like you're missing out on something if you're settings aren't optimized like another user has. Listen...if you're missing transmissions or things aren't coming in as well as expected, make the adjustments mentioned. If everything sounds good to you, leave well enough alone.
 

trentbob

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Yeah I guess I should have included that because that's how I feel too. I see filters as troubleshooting aides that you should use when you find missed transmissions or clipped transmissions on a system or poor reception on a conventional object that you think should be coming in better or does come in better on other radios. Other than that, that's the only time I would apply filters, you don't need to apply filters to every object. Default normal works fine.

If you do have issues, the filters were developed after the radio was released to solve problems people were having so by all means... Enjoy the hype.

jpb I hope I was able to answer your question, thanks for asking me.
 

garys

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I have most of my filters sent to Normal, but on a couple of P25 and DMR trunked systems, I ended up using Invert because I was missing transmissions.

It's really a trial and error process and I've had my SDS200 since they first came out and just now am really comfortable with the settings on most of the systems and frequencies. There are a couple of conventional frequencies I get interference on and I'm going to try playing around with the IFX to see if that helps.
 

trentbob

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I have most of my filters sent to Normal, but on a couple of P25 and DMR trunked systems, I ended up using Invert because I was missing transmissions.

It's really a trial and error process and I've had my SDS200 since they first came out and just now am really comfortable with the settings on most of the systems and frequencies. There are a couple of conventional frequencies I get interference on and I'm going to try playing around with the IFX to see if that helps.
Yes normal works good for me too in most cases. When the radio first came out and I got one of the first ones the darn thing ended up in a drawer gathering dust LOL I was very disappointed on my Phase 2 tdma performance on my counties system which has one site called simulcast and 26 Towers all very close to each other. I had nothing but clipped and missed transmissions. I wanted to scan a UHF repeater Channel that's used as an off system car to car frequency in my Township. It just absolutely did not work even after applying a two-second system hold time not to be confused with hold time.

I eventually used a 255 second system hold time but it didn't work in a mobile application passing through different Towers and you couldn't scan anything else. I was not a happy camper and was one of those who were called a hater because the radio didn't work for me and was useless and that's not allowed here, if the radio works for one person then it's going to work for everybody, if it doesn't work for you, you are a hater LOL. Honestly after spending all that money, I did hate the radio.

I kept the radio because it was a work in progress with regular firmware updates that were making improvements all the time, that's when Uniden still had a scanner division named UPMan, it will be one year next week, rest in peace Paul.

When Paul brought out the first update with the first group of filters, normal, invert and none at all, I pulled the radio out of a drawer and dusted It Off and tried invert applied to that one site called simulcast.

It was a freaking miracle. It worked... I did leave on a 1 second system hold time in system options but was able to also scan the one UHF repeater Channel I needed. It was fantastic, I finally had the radio that worked the way it was supposed to work and I fell in love with it despite rotary knob issues and the battery clip falling apart in my hands LOL.

When the second group of filters came out in an update I was able to get even better results on wide invert and was able to eliminate the system hold time all together without any missed transmissions or clipped transmissions, speeding up my scanning time.

As far as the IFX goes, I found that my radio was deaf on the aviation band which I listen to regularly. I applied function 7 to all Aviation frequencies and it was like night and day, normal filter remains optimal on Aviation.
 

werinshades

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Yes normal works good for me too in most cases. When the radio first came out and I got one of the first ones the darn thing ended up in a drawer gathering dust LOL I was very disappointed on my Phase 2 tdma performance on my counties system which has one site called simulcast and 26 Towers all very close to each other. I had nothing but clipped and missed transmissions. I wanted to scan a UHF repeater Channel that's used as an off system car to car frequency in my Township. It just absolutely did not work even after applying a two-second system hold time not to be confused with hold time.

I eventually used a 255 second system hold time but it didn't work in a mobile application passing through different Towers and you couldn't scan anything else. I was not a happy camper and was one of those who were called a hater because the radio didn't work for me and was useless and that's not allowed here, if the radio works for one person then it's going to work for everybody, if it doesn't work for you, you are a hater LOL. Honestly after spending all that money, I did hate the radio.

I kept the radio because it was a work in progress with regular firmware updates that were making improvements all the time, that's when Uniden still had a scanner division named UPMan, it will be one year next week, rest in peace Paul.

When Paul brought out the first update with the first group of filters, normal, invert and none at all, I pulled the radio out of a drawer and dusted It Off and tried invert applied to that one site called simulcast.

It was a freaking miracle. It worked... I did leave on a 1 second system hold time in system options but was able to also scan the one UHF repeater Channel I needed. It was fantastic, I finally had the radio that worked the way it was supposed to work and I fell in love with it despite rotary knob issues and the battery clip falling apart in my hands LOL.

When the second group of filters came out in an update I was able to get even better results on wide invert and was able to eliminate the system hold time all together without any missed transmissions or clipped transmissions, speeding up my scanning time.

As far as the IFX goes, I found that my radio was deaf on the aviation band which I listen to regularly. I applied function 7 to all Aviation frequencies and it was like night and day, normal filter remains optimal on Aviation.

Wide Invert is also my optimum setting for most of my systems, so I make it a Global setting. The confusion comes in for new owners when it comes to site/department filters can be adjusted also and can be individualized. I recommend any filter/modulation changes be made on the scanner first, and if it works, read it back to Sentinel so it can be saved.
 

TailGator911

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As far as the IFX goes, I found that my radio was deaf on the aviation band which I listen to regularly. I applied function 7 to all Aviation frequencies and it was like night and day, normal filter remains optimal on Aviation.

I have found that when all filters fail, IFX is sometimes the best option. Some nearby vhf/uhf mall frequencies were muddy when I figured I was close enough for them to be much clearer. IFX was like night and day.
 

TexTAC

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Wide-Invert opened up the Fort Worth system for me which is about 50 miles away. On every other filter, I may get a “Data” notification on one CC on one of the 11 sites and occasional talk groups that flash with no reception. On wide-invert, I get “data” on 4 of the 11 sites and can hear traffic on talk groups. Made a big difference on that system, but not much difference on other systems.
 

jonwienke

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The best filter/IFX choice depends on your local RF environment. There aren't any guarantees settings that work well in one location will work well in another.
 

garys

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I'm trying IFX on one frequency that often has digital interference. The channel is used analog by the FD and there are no other users licensed. Occasionally there is a burst of digital data and I'll see if the IFX helps.
 

IAmSixNine

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Wide-Invert opened up the Fort Worth system for me which is about 50 miles away. On every other filter, I may get a “Data” notification on one CC on one of the 11 sites and occasional talk groups that flash with no reception. On wide-invert, I get “data” on 4 of the 11 sites and can hear traffic on talk groups. Made a big difference on that system, but not much difference on other systems.
@TexTAC What filter are you using on PAWM?
 
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