SDS100 Conventional P25 Poor Performance

[todd818]

Picked up an SDS100 earlier this week from the local HRO, and I was excited to see and hear how well this unit performed. I purchased the DMR & NXDN upgrades, updated to the latest firmware and started programming.

I was incredibly underwhelmed and disappointed by the performance of conventional P25, particularly LAPD. Side by side comparisons with a 436HP and 396T on the same channels, and the SDS100 cut out repeatedly on some channels, channels that I've never had an issue with on a handheld from inside my house. I was impressed, however, with its ability on LA's STRS system, a Harris P25.

Why no Digital Threshold option on the SDS? I would like to play with that, but obviously can't.

$649, plus $50 plus $40 for the upgrades is absolutely not worth it if this is the performance I get from a powerhouse P25 conventional system like LAPD's. Disappointing and I'm strongly considering a return. Maybe the next model will perform better?

Any suggestions? Could something be wrong with this unit?

 

[jonwienke]

Most likely problem is it needs a firmware update. Load the beta firmware found here:
https://forums.radioreference.com/uniden-tech-support/372091-sds100-firmware-1-02-05a-open-beta.html

Digital threshold does not apply to the design of the SDS100, so it is not an available setting.

Firmware update is particularly important if you never updated it.

 

[AA6IO]

Todd818: I have had the SDS-100 for 8 days. I initially reported fairly good results on LAPD in another thread last week. Since then, I have purchased the DMR and NXDN upgrades. On LA STRS, it works great with an outside antenna in terms of decoding compared to 436HP. For LAPD, I get pretty similar performance as 436HP.
For everything else, including DMR and NXDN, I am disappointed after using the scanner for a week. DMR and NXDN performance very poor in comparison to 436/536HP. SDS-100 misses all kinds of traffic that the 436 picks up under similar conditions. I am using the beta firmware, but not much difference. Other scanners better on good old analog.
I almost returned the scanner to HRO Anaheim yesterday, but figure I'll keep it and see what Uniden can do with firmware down the line. The only really great thing about the scanner is the display. I can understand why folks with simulcast P25 systems like the SDS-100, and its performance on LA-STRS (Harris) confirms that.
However, for those in the Los Angeles area, you're still much better off with the 436/536HP. I am not impressed with the SDS-100 after using it for one week here in Los Angeles. For those folks who already own the x36HPs in this area, I might wait to see what develops down the line.
Certainly, the SDR concept has a lot of potential, and I presume Uniden will make progress with firmware updates. But the RF performance of this scanner is poor in LA area unless you have really strong signals. Its weaker signal performance is horrible. Very difficult to hold onto control channels unless at least -85 dBM (equivalent to about S7) in my experience. As always YMMV.

 

[todd818]

Most likely problem is it needs a firmware update. Load the beta firmware found here:
https://forums.radioreference.com/uniden-tech-support/372091-sds100-firmware-1-02-05a-open-beta.html

Digital threshold does not apply to the design of the SDS100, so it is not an available setting.

Firmware update is particularly important if you never updated it.

Thank you John. Upgraded to the beta firmware a few hours before I sent the original post, and unfortunately no difference.

 

[todd818]

Thank you Steve, I agree. I've done a lot of comparing between the SDS100, 436HP and 536HP in the last week, and as much as I want to love the SDS, I am just not impressed so far. Maybe you're right, additional firmware updates may address some of the issues, we shall see. I don't want to bank on that though. The 396T works flawlessly on the LAPD system, and I'm completely confused why a newer model wouldn't at least perform the same. Just as I was typing that, a broadcast was coming from LAPD Air/K9, a channel which is simulcast Citywide (and one of its transmitters is literally in line of site from my window). The broadcast was broken and audio quality poor. I don't understand. And I'm not a "hater," not even close. A lifelong Uniden/Bearcat customer...have never owned any other brand of scanner.

 

[AA6IO]

Jon, I appreciate your firmware update comments. But here in Los Angeles, this scanner just not cutting the mustard. I have been scanning for 40+ years, and this scanner is disappointing in Los Angeles area. Perhaps has to do with RF overload. Don't know, and I'm not going to beta test for Uniden. I just expected a lot more. Perhaps down the line.

 

[jonwienke]

Certainly, the SDR concept has a lot of potential, and I presume Uniden will make progress with firmware updates. But the RF performance of this scanner is poor in LA area unless you have really strong signals. Its weaker signal performance is horrible.

If you set squelch to 0, the SDS100 and the 436 lose signal in the noise at about the same time. The actual receiver performance is pretty similar, but squelch settings are not the same between the 436 and SDS100 (except for 0) and there are some bugs in the firmware that are preventing optimal performance. The unit has only been out 2 weeks and Uniden has already done one firmware update, and more are in the works.

A product as complex as a multiformat digital trunking scanner is going to take a little time to work out all of the firmware issues. Give Uniden a chance to work the bugs out.

 

[AA6IO]

Appreciate your input Jon. The problem with the squelch is if you set it to zero, as you know, scanning very slow. Here in LA, I typically will monitor a couple of hundred conventional stations with some trunking thrown in on my handhelds. The 436 and 536 with priority DND work great with this set up. SDS-100 also has priority DND, at a squelch of zero, not really useful for scanning.
Anyway, I certainly will give Uniden a chance to work bugs out, and I'm hoping that things will improve. I don't know if P25, DMR, and NXDN settings like threshold mode and level are possible on this SDR platform, but that might help. I'm going to keep the scanner.

 

[bravo14]

Have you tried hold time set at 1 instead of 0?

 

[AA6IO]

Hold time of 1 does make difference on some systems. However, scanner still misses a lot, and DMR and NXDN performance still not nearly as solid as with upgrades on 436/536. Scanner struggles a lot on trying to decode some signals, then loses them. I suppose I'm looking for at least same performance as 436HP on these upgraded modes, and not seeing it. Actually, the best new unit for NXDN I have right now is the IC-R30. Really sensitive.
Said above that I don't want to beta test, but after scanning for many years, really know that I do have to beta test, not so much for myself, but for scanning in general, to take things to a new level. I really do appreciate the effort that Paul Opitz has put into this venture.
I await more firmware updates and more reports around the Los Angeles area.

 

[dsankir]

Hold time of 1 does make difference on some systems. However, scanner still misses a lot, and DMR and NXDN performance still not nearly as solid as with upgrades on 436/536. Scanner struggles a lot on trying to decode some signals, then loses them. I suppose I'm looking for at least same performance as 436HP on these upgraded modes, and not seeing it. Actually, the best new unit for NXDN I have right now is the IC-R30. Really sensitive.
Said above that I don't want to beta test, but after scanning for many years, really know that I do have to beta test, not so much for myself, but for scanning in general, to take things to a new level. I really do appreciate the effort that Paul Opitz has put into this venture.
I await more firmware updates and more reports around the Los Angeles area.

Same as here...No big issues on P25 but on nxdn still missing a lot.Tried different antennas,changed hold time,squelch etc still dont have big improvement.
I think with beta firmware,there is only correction on P25 receiving sensitivity.Waiting good news from Uniden.

Cheers

 

[325xia]

Todd818: I have had the SDS-100 for 8 days. I initially reported fairly good results on LAPD in another thread last week. Since then, I have purchased the DMR and NXDN upgrades. On LA STRS, it works great with an outside antenna in terms of decoding compared to 436HP. For LAPD, I get pretty similar performance as 436HP.
For everything else, including DMR and NXDN, I am disappointed after using the scanner for a week. DMR and NXDN performance very poor in comparison to 436/536HP. SDS-100 misses all kinds of traffic that the 436 picks up under similar conditions. I am using the beta firmware, but not much difference. Other scanners better on good old analog.
I almost returned the scanner to HRO Anaheim yesterday, but figure I'll keep it and see what Uniden can do with firmware down the line. The only really great thing about the scanner is the display. I can understand why folks with simulcast P25 systems like the SDS-100, and its performance on LA-STRS (Harris) confirms that.
However, for those in the Los Angeles area, you're still much better off with the 436/536HP. I am not impressed with the SDS-100 after using it for one week here in Los Angeles. For those folks who already own the x36HPs in this area, I might wait to see what develops down the line.
Certainly, the SDR concept has a lot of potential, and I presume Uniden will make progress with firmware updates. But the RF performance of this scanner is poor in LA area unless you have really strong signals. Its weaker signal performance is horrible. Very difficult to hold onto control channels unless at least -85 dBM (equivalent to about S7) in my experience. As always YMMV.

This has been my experience as well. Using my 436 more than my SDS. I was hoping for better performance. With the poor performance and battery life I prefer my 436 thus far.

 

[jonwienke]

Same as here...No big issues on P25 but on nxdn still missing a lot.

The good news is that is something that can be solved with firmware. If the hardware was bad, all reception would be bad, analog and all types of digital.

 

[troymail]

Todd818: I have had the SDS-100 for 8 days. I initially reported fairly good results on LAPD in another thread last week. Since then, I have purchased the DMR and NXDN upgrades. On LA STRS, it works great with an outside antenna in terms of decoding compared to 436HP. For LAPD, I get pretty similar performance as 436HP.
For everything else, including DMR and NXDN, I am disappointed after using the scanner for a week. DMR and NXDN performance very poor in comparison to 436/536HP. SDS-100 misses all kinds of traffic that the 436 picks up under similar conditions. I am using the beta firmware, but not much difference. Other scanners better on good old analog.
I almost returned the scanner to HRO Anaheim yesterday, but figure I'll keep it and see what Uniden can do with firmware down the line. The only really great thing about the scanner is the display. I can understand why folks with simulcast P25 systems like the SDS-100, and its performance on LA-STRS (Harris) confirms that.
However, for those in the Los Angeles area, you're still much better off with the 436/536HP. I am not impressed with the SDS-100 after using it for one week here in Los Angeles. For those folks who already own the x36HPs in this area, I might wait to see what develops down the line.
Certainly, the SDR concept has a lot of potential, and I presume Uniden will make progress with firmware updates. But the RF performance of this scanner is poor in LA area unless you have really strong signals. Its weaker signal performance is horrible. Very difficult to hold onto control channels unless at least -85 dBM (equivalent to about S7) in my experience. As always YMMV.

Very interesting feedback Steve -- I think I tend to see alot of "works great" on day one and two but over time the novelty seems to wear off and true performance becomes more clear. I myself experienced something similar with my purchase(s) of a 536 then a 436 several years ago. Initially, I was "wow"... then, over time, the issues started to appear.

From the collective of what I've been reading, YMMV does seem to apply (again) and I myself (based on what I've been reading) also came to the conclusion that the display seems to be the most interesting aspect of the radio. Now there is the discussion about future features like a waterfall display, etc. The good news is unlike in the past, Uniden didn't announce that or other future features and then make people wait - if they ever become reality - like with the x36 models.

I guess that's why we were hearing and seeing in ads early on that the SDS "does better than any other scanner" (but proving not to be true for all users) rather than "we solved the simulcast/LSM" problems.

On a related note - a friend also purchased a SDS-100 and reported similar findings ("does not meet the hype") - so much so that after only a week or so of ownership, he has already shipped it to me so I can give it a test drive.... not something I'd expect for all the hype surrounding a brand new radio....

Again, thanks for your comments.

 

[AA6IO]

That's good Jon because the analog reception is actually very good on the SDS-100 across the spectrum. I agree with you and think it is in the firmware. Despite my 1-week impressions, remain hopeful that things will improve.

 

[jonwienke]

The firmware is not as polished as it could be, but the hardware is solid IMO. The state of the firmware is about what I'd expect for a product that has only been out for 2 weeks.

 

[AA6IO]

Thanks for all you do for the scanning community Jon. You seem very talented when it comes to the nuts and bolts (literally) of these scanners. Have a great day.

 

[milcom_chaser]

You guys need to upload your log files generated within the SDS-100 per UPman's instructions. That would help the Software engineers with debugging these issues. Look for the post/thread UPman started for posting log files.

 

[AA6IO]

Will check the thread. Thanks for info.

 

[jonwienke]

Thanks for all you do for the scanning community Jon. You seem very talented when it comes to the nuts and bolts (literally) of these scanners. Have a great day.

You're welcome.