SDS100 Favorites List - Some TG or departments not always being scanned.

[IAmSixNine]

Well I hate to have to resort to asking for help here but im stumped.
Problem - SDS100 favorites list is not always passing audio on some talk groups.
Details - So i have a system -PAWM Plano, Allen, Wylie, Murphy (PAWM) Trunking System, Plano/Allen, Texas - Scanner Frequencies
I have it direct from the RR DB. Imported into favorites list. I then noticed a few days later that the department labeled Allen Fire dept and Wylie Fire Dept will no longer stop when they have traffic. I can then do a channel hold and sit on a channel that will not stop in the scan list and it will work but only if channel hold is on and i park it on that channel.

So I added a department - All Fire Dept. then i copied all the fire depts on the system and pasted it in there. The Allen and Wylie Fd TG now work in the All Fire Depts. Dept.
They are not avoided, the dept is selected to scan, and service types for them are turned on.
Last resort was clear user data on scanner. Then write it all back to the scanner. Still not stopping on any allen fire dept talk groups in the Allen Fire Dept, Dept selection or any wylie fire dept talk groups in the Wylie Fire Dept under Department. There may be others but these are just the 2 depts i noticed not passing audio. I have a G4 set with all fire depts and that is what caused me to realize my scanner was missing traffic.

It has to be a programming issue as i just sent the favorites list to my BCD436 and can reproduce the same problem on it. But i am just not seeing the issues.

 

[trentbob]

I had this problem when the SDS first came out. The introduction of the first set of filters made all the difference in the world. I also added a 1 to 2 second system hold time to system options and was able to reduce it to a 1 second system hold time. Between that and the proper filter the problem went away.

A lot of people feel the filters are not effective but they aren't being used properly. Start sampling with global filters which are on normal as default. Avoid Auto filter. So globally try invert, wide invert and wide normal observing your real time RSSI, noise level and error rate. You can also use your ear also. People will say RSSI does not matter, whatever. If you find an improvement return Global to normal which is default and drill down to the site or sites that you use and apply the successful filter to site options.

Add the filter indicator to your display it will help and use a pen and paper to mark down results as your sampling Global filters. The reason you want to return Global filters to default normal is it affects every object in your radio and might compromise other objects if you leave it on the most effective filter for your system. By applying the filters to the individual sites of your system those filters only affect your system.

Also go to system options of your system and apply a one or two second system hold time, it can be very effective in preventing skipped Transmissions.

Just a shot in the dark, something that might help.

 

[IAmSixNine]

All of my system hold times are 3 seconds. Squelch set at 4 and i believe wide normal is the filter for the PAWM system which works best for me.

However i have been able to replicate the issue by sending the same favorites list to my BCD436. Both are side by side and are receiving and missing the same transmissions. So now i can confirm this is more of a Sentinel issue or favorites list issue and not a specific model of a scanner issue like I previously thought. I have identified 2 departments that are not stopping in scan mode, wylie fire and allen fire. However since i tend to focus the scanners on certain TG i am now paying more attention to them in scan mode to see if any other TG or Depts are not being being picked up.
Also far as i can tell this is only happening on this particular favorites list. But still testing and a work in progress.

 

[trentbob]

Good you're way ahead of me LOL. Sounds to me like you're methodically going to solve this LOL. One thing I would suggest is a squelch of 2 not 4. If a system hold time of 2 seconds doesn't do it then 4 probably won't make a difference other than really slowing things down.

Just for shtz and giggles, not that this is going to work but it could be interesting to try. Apply a 255 second system hold time. Assuming you have more than one site that should keep housekeeping from happening for at least a little over four minutes at a time. Again, not a solution as much as just an experiment.

 

[hiegtx]

All of my system hold times are 3 seconds. Squelch set at 4 and i believe wide normal is the filter for the PAWM system which works best for me.

However i have been able to replicate the issue by sending the same favorites list to my BCD436. Both are side by side and are receiving and missing the same transmissions. So now i can confirm this is more of a Sentinel issue or favorites list issue and not a specific model of a scanner issue like I previously thought. I have identified 2 departments that are not stopping in scan mode, wylie fire and allen fire. However since i tend to focus the scanners on certain TG i am now paying more attention to them in scan mode to see if any other TG or Depts are not being being picked up.
Also far as i can tell this is only happening on this particular favorites list. But still testing and a work in progress.

I have not had the same issue. But if you want to export your Favorites list (the PAWM part) into an *.hpe file, I'll take a look. Sometimes I catch myself overlooking something obvious, so if you want another set of eyes to take a peek, attach the export or send it to me in a 'conversation'. You might also have my email.

 

[jonwienke]

Talkgroups are never scanned. Sites are scanned. If you're not hearing certain talkgroups, check your service type settings, and make sure range is set far enough to reach the border of the Department containing the talakgroup(s), if it's a city or county you don't live in.

 

[TexTAC]

I think you may be using location control on that favorite list and your range setting may be too low. The department range on Allen, Lucas, Murphy, Parker, The Colony, and Wylie is all less than 5 miles. The department range on Collin College Collin County, and Plano is all greater than 10 miles. Depending upon where you are, you may hear some departments and miss others if your range setting is too low. Try it with location control turned off or a higher range setting and see if that is the cause.

 

[IAmSixNine]

Location control is not used and never has been. In the same system with a different department the same talk groups do work.
I am in Wylie so location is not an issue either. Im a mile or two from the Wylie tower inside a building with a BDA.
So to address the Talkgroups are never scanned, its my choice of terminology since i am not parked on a specific talk group. So they are being scanned. Now if I park the scanner TG Hold on one of the TG that is being missed while its in scan mode, it will work fine. As stated in my original post they are not being avoided and the correct service types are selected.

So I further believe this is or was a glitch in Sentinel.
The most recent change i made a few hours ago in Sentinel was to edit the favorites list. Mark ALL the departments to Avoid, then went back and removed the Avoid.
I also changed the order of the talkgoups in sentinel in the two departments (Allen Fire and Wylie Fire) then wrote it back to both scanners.
NOW i am picking up the talk groups in those two departments. Prior to this I was not.
So this may have just been some weird sentinel glitch that has now been resolved.
I really feel like it was acting as if the two departments in question had the department avoid tag enabled. If i were to park the scanner on a talk group in any of the depts that were not scanning right they would pass audio on any of the TG in the dept. But not when scan was enabled. Just like they would if avoid was enabled.

 

[jonwienke]

If holding on a TG gets traffic but normal scanning does not, then either location control or service type settings are telling the scanner to ignore it.

 

[tampatracker]

Just a thought here, I had the same issue (I think). Just make sure all your quick keys, i.e. dept keys, are enabled in Sentinel, because if they're not all the "missing" traffic will be the same on both your 100 and 436.

 

[IAmSixNine]

Its working now.
Location control was never used. I dont use quick keys. Service types for all police and fire are on and the correct departments do not have avoid enabled. .
It was a problem with Sentinel.
After avoiding all departments, then turning off the avoids it is now working.
After reviewing it further i believe i know what happened.
For years i left the favorites list factory original from its download from the master DB.
So all the departments were in a specific order. I locked out Allen, Plano and Wylie city services in Department as well as Plano ISD.
Everything worked until i re-arranged the departments in Sentinel and wrote it back to the scanner.
I was able to see where the city services were and where they are now. The depts that were not picking up traffic are in spots where the original city services dept were locked out.
So example old spot 2 was Allen City Services and that is now where Allen Fire is. In Sentinel i verified Avoid was only enabled on the city services at the bottom of my list. After i enabled avoid on all of the departments, then turned it back on all of the police and fire departments the scanner now works like its supposed to.
So it was a glitch in sentinel. No changes were made to (because i dont use them) location or quick keys. I figured this out with trial and error..

Both the SDS100 and BCD436 were experiencing the same issue and are now working like they should be. So not a hardware issue thankfully.

Just a weird error that took a lot of patients and watching unitrunker and a G4.

 

[JoeBearcat]

Check to make sure you do not have any duplicate Quick Keys between Departments and Sites. They share the same set.

 

[IAmSixNine]

And its not working again.
I dont use quick keys. Dont use location settings. Ive created my own favorites list. Service types are enabled.
So to make matters worse i deleted the system out of my favorites list. Then appended the system to the favorites list.
Then i went through and made my changes. Moved departments around, create a new dept for All fire depts in the system.
Avoided some TG that i know are encrypted. Avoided a couple of city services departments.
And now i am back to having fire depts talk groups work when the dept All Fire Dept is being scanned. BUT now if i hold on system, hold on Plano Fire Dept, none of the talk groups work.
So to recap, the same talk groups ONLY scan / active when they are in the All Fire dept, department. BUT if i were to go to the agency fire dept, dept they do not. Here is how its set up
System PAWM
Deptartments set up below
All fire dept
Allen Fire
Allen Police
Fairview Fire
Lucas Fire
Murphy Fire
Parker Fire
Plano EOC
Plano Fire
Plano Police
The Colony
Collin College
Wylie Fire
Wylie Police
Collin County Fire
Collin County Sheriff
Allen city services (avoid)
Plano City services (avoid)
Wylie city services (avoid)
Richardson Backup (avoid)
Frisco Backup (avoid)
Plano ISD (avoid)

So the fire talk groups work in the dept called All Fire Dept.
But if i go to Plano Fire dept for example they do not work there. WHY??? (side note, Plano Fire dept did work earlier in the week. But after i deleted the original system and created a new one they no longer work) I can hold on a channel and they do work. But not in scan mode.
The whole reason why i created All Fire Dept, is i noticed Allen FD and Wylie FD (and now Plano FD) were not showing up on my scanner when my G4 and KNG were passing audio.
So at this point if anybody is in or around the PAWM system and has an SDS100 or 436 and can test out my HPE file i would appreciate it.
I will be doing more changes and making a new system to further try to figure this out.
Uploaded it as a txt file but its actually a hpe file.

 

[TexTAC]

I can receive PAWM and am willing to help. However, I can't read the text file. Download the file as an .hpe file, then save it as a .zip file and reattach it (or send it in a DM message).

Edited to Add: The issue may be that you have the same talkgroup in two different departments under the same system. When the scanner detects traffic it tries to identify the talkgroup by searching the departments. Once it finds the talkgroup in a department it stops looking for it. It may be that the scanner is only identifying that talkgroup in the "All Fire" Department because that department is listed before the "Plano Fire Department" department. When you are scanning "All Fire" it finds it in "All Fire" and lets you hear it. When you are scanning "Plano Fire Department" it finds it in "All Fire" and thinks you don't want to hear it because you are paused on "Plano Fire Department".

You can check this theory out by moving "Plano Fire Department" above "All Fire" and see if the issue appears in reverse (i.e. it works when scanning "Plano Fire Department" but not when scanning "All Fire Department").

 

[fxdscon]

I can receive PAWM and am willing to help. However, I can't read the text file. Download the file as an .hpe file, then save it as a .zip file and reattach it (or send it in a DM message).

That is an hpe file..... change the ".txt" to ".hpe"

 

[TexTAC]

That is an hpe file..... change the ".txt" to ".hpe"

I did and it gave me an error when I tried to import it into my scanner.

 

[fxdscon]

I did and it gave me an error when I tried to import it into my scanner.

Were you able to import the file into Sentinel after changing the extension to ".hpe"? I tried it and it imported without errors.

 

[TexTAC]

No. I get the following error: Importing Operation Failed. Reading hpe file was failure. Extending gz file was failure. The CRC in GZip footer does not match the CRC calculated from the decompressed data.

I'm still thinking the issue the op is having is because he has the same talkgroup in two departments. I'd play around with it, but I can't import the favorite list.

 

[phask]

Real quick
TG 601 is in there twice - under all fire dept Aln Ops 1 and Allen Fire Ops 1 (same is true for 11 TG's.

Not sure if that is the issue as I have not been following the thread.

File imported fine. I also imported into Proscan and searched for duplicate TG's

 

[Ubbe]

When you select a TG manually it ignores the avoid set to it and monitors it normally. The avoid only comes in play while scanning.

What could be happening are that the scanner reads all TG's for that system from the SD card and then stores in its memory.
When it decodes the control channel it sees a TG being active and it searches through the stored list of TG's until it finds the TG.
As you have the same TG number in several departments and one of the TG's are set to avoid, it will depend on if the scanner finds the avoided or the un-avoided TG first if it will skip that TG or start to monitor it.

If you delete the whole "All Fire Dept." department, or copy it to ANOTHER dummy system just for safe keeping, it will probably start to work the way you want it to do.

/Ubbe