SDS100 Prerelease Discussion

[county]

It’s important to have a way to recharge batteries externally since internal charging requires the radio to be turned off. If the proprietary pack indeed goes to market I hope a reasonable external charging option will exist.

Very excited about the radio!

 

[ofd8001]

I thought I looked at this thread and apologize if I'm asking a question that has been answered.

Will Profiles and Favorites Lists written for x36 scanners be easily transferred to the SDS100 or will some type of HPE export be necessary?

 

[Jay911]

I thought I looked at this thread and apologize if I'm asking a question that has been answered.

Will Profiles and Favorites Lists written for x36 scanners be easily transferred to the SDS100 or will some type of HPE export be necessary?

UPMan is using x36 Sentinel for his prototype unit, so the implication is that the data will be directly compatible.

 

[jonwienke]

What's Jon's mod? Can you provide a link? I would like to read a little bit more about it.

Thanks!

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=8840&cat=13

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=8621&cat=13

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=8835&cat=13

 

[UPMan]

Their description does not reflect the latest information, which I have posted.

 

[mharris]

I was skeptical about the LSM performance reading the original posts and upman's videos make me less skeptical but in the wrong direction if you think this scanner will fix your LSM issues.

First of all, to say you've seen Motorola radios struggle with LSM and use it as an excuse is just plain reckless. Either that system you saw was not designed for the radio you used or that system has problems...problems to the tune of they better get their money back. Subscriber radios simply do not have LSM issues that affect performance to any degree worth writing about.

Further, just because a radio is software defined, don't expect perfect, or even better LSM performance. RTL SDR dongles don't get me any better performance. It's the quality of the receiver.

Seeing his videos lead me to believe the radio will not be to the quality of a Motorola radio for LSM for a few reasons. The first two clips I saw were a mere few seconds in length. I've gotten scanners to sound acceptable for just a few seconds before. Additionally, none of the videos I viewed had scanners in motion. Literally everybody that struggles with LSM knows that there are sweet spots around the house. Having two radios next to each other proves nothing either because I've experienced 100% decode at one coordinate and 0% just one inch left or right.


It doesn't take a scientist to come up with these hypotheses, but my bachelors of science degree helped. I wish Uniden nothing but the best but I seriously doubt this will replace my APX6000xe. Oh, still doing those silly paid upgrades for DMR and intentionally not including GPS? Yeah, definitely not for me. I will still preorder one, though, for the Youtube views but I'll definitely resell it before the price drops significantly when the market realizes its true value.

Dude...This scanner is going to be a wonderful improvement for most of us. Please stop.

 

[MtnBiker2005]

Looks like the SDS100 will have a sister scanner(mobile version?)
One of the Uniden beta tester started the SDS200 and SDS500 yahoogroup for it.

SDS200 Yahoogroup.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SDS200/info

SDS500 Yahoogroup.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SDS500/info

 

[Voyager]

$700 for a handheld scanner? No way.

The MSRP for the BC250D with P25 card was $800, and that's not adjusting for inflation. New tech is never cheap.

 

[KR7CQ]

The MSRP for the BC250D with P25 card was $800, and that's not adjusting for inflation. New tech is never cheap.

Exactly. And it really cracks me up when ham guys who spend thousands upon thousands on hobby radios complain a $699 scanner is too much....seen several posts like that on here as well. A PRO-2006 was MSRP $499 in 1991!! Adjust that for inflation! Did that radio have a hard time selling? Hardly. Will this new scanner be available for less than MSRP? Yes. Will Uniden have a hard time selling them? Not at all. This will be one of the hottest sellers in a very long time.

 

[Markb]

I know a lot of the focus is on LSM reception, but to Paul or any of the beta testers:
Any commentary on reception in the other (non 7/800) bands? I know there were issues with UHF in the 436 (improved after I did the "C1" mod).
Seems as though every previous non-SDR scanner has had better RX in some bands than others.

 

[Viper43]

Looks like the SDS100 will have a sister scanner(mobile version?)
One of the Uniden beta tester started the SDS200 and SDS500 yahoogroup for it.

SDS200 Yahoogroup.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SDS200/info

SDS500 Yahoogroup.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SDS500/info

Remember that just because there is a group it doesn't mean there is a radio actually being considered. It could be there just to throw you off and make you think there is a radio with that designation. It's also good practice to throw off the competition, although at this point I don't see anyone capable of competing with Uniden and the SDS100

 

[Spitfire8520]

Instead of explaining because I'm at work, I copied a Harris employee trying to explain it on a thread for an agency near here that uses it, installed by Harris
" Amherst County Dispatchers have pre-programmed paging schemes in their consoles.

If the Agency being alerted HAS retained their VHF-Highband pagers, the 155.520 MHz (192.8 Hz) transmitter AND that Agency’s ‘quiet’ talkgroup (one group the range of TGID 1111 through 1120) will be simulselected, and the first set of paging tones transmitted. Then, a second or two later, the paging tones will be transmitted a second time on the Fire Dispatch talkgroup (TGID 1100), with a voice announcement of the type of call and details.

If the Agency being alerted HAS NOT retained their VHF-Highband pagers, the Agency’s ‘quiet’ talkgroup (one group the range of TGID 1111 through 1120) will be simulselected, and the first set of paging tones transmitted. Then, a second or two later, the paging tones will be transmitted a second time on the Fire Dispatch talkgroup (TGID 1100), with a voice announcement of the type of call and details.

Keep in mind, the simulselect does not transmit the call on two different talkgroups simultaneously. What actually occurs is when two or more talkgroups are paired in a simulselect, the system randomly chooses an open SAID (System Assigned talkgroup ID), and the call is actually transmitted over the SAID group, and not the individual talkgroups in the simulselect.

Ditto when two or more talkgroups are patched together. The actual calls are made on a SAID group, and not the individual talkgroups in the patch. This the technique that was utilized in APCO Project-16 (EDACS, LTR, Moto various flavors, etc.). It worked correctly, it still does today in Project-25 systems.

Actual user radios on the system constantly monitor the Control Channel for group call assignments and other information. When a normal group call is made, the user radios receive the broadcast on the control channel to shift to working channel X, to receive a group call on talkgroup X.

In the case of a simulselect or patch, the user radios receive the broadcast on the control channel that if you (user radio) is monitoring talkgroup X, then to shift to working channel X, to receive a group call on SAID talkgroup X. Actual system user radios do this automatically, and always have.

BUT, for some goofy reason, the Scanner Manufacturers have never been able to wrap their collective minds around this simple concept and implement it into their products! This causes you to have Listeners report hearing patched (or simulselect) calls on all sorts of wild talkgroups, usually above 50,000.


In the average P-25 systems I have installed, there are several hundred talkgroups reserved into a pool for SAID assignments. Some System Engineers allocated these talkgroups as Static (IE: same group used for specific patch), while other Engineers opted for greater flexibility and used Dynamic.

I personally always opted for Dynamic. "

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

So it is effectively the same as my earlier question about P25 patched talkgroups. I just wish we could get a definitive answer about whether or not it will ever be supported.

 

[SteveSimpkin]

Announcement of the SDS100 on the rtl-sdr.com website.
Links to the preliminary user's manual, videos, Uniden's site and this discussion thread are included.
https://www.rtl-sdr.com/uniden-announce-the-sds100-a-software-defined-handheld-scanner/

 

[I_am_Alpha1]

Just because the man is offering you candy doesn't mean you should get into his windowless van. A short video and an ad slick is making everyone wet their pants. We've been here before.

HP-1 was touted at the best thing since sliced bread--total flop and was quickly replaced when Uniden couldn't get it to work very well. Remember the extra $100 we paid for the "extreme" stuff. The only reason I keep mine is because it connects to my computer to strip trunking systems and it has a line out for broadcastify feed.

BCDx36HP was the big fix all scanners. They did help a tad. Remember the repair campaigns...how's your screen and clock. How long did we wait for the Siren app...and have been waiting for updates. Had to 3D print a stand for the 436 to keep it from falling over.

No GPS...no excuse. The 436 mod proves it works and costs us less than $20. All cellphones have GPS. Several Ham/Commercial handhelds have GPS.

Can't charge battery while powered on...no excuse. The 436 mod proves it works too. Cellphones can do this as well. You cant blame California for this. Ham/Commercial handhelds can do this.

No DMR out of the box...DMR radios cost less than the upgrade charge. Upgrades may not be available upon release...code that you'll wait years or possible never get it. No FCC approval yet--that's not going to happen overnight so expect long delays with this one.

Proprietary battery (possibly). NO way. AA Lion or 14500 batteries. Can't charge a proprietary battery out of the unit unless Uniden makes a aftermarket charger just for this one product. Can't shut it off at night to charge...takes longer than people sleep to charge.

Nearly ready to go into production and Japan could only send a developer prototype to Upman...and no software yet. Starting to sound like history repeating itself.

Thousands have been burned...and don't want to deal with the tear stained air mattress in the back of the van...again.

Upman is doing his job and can only tell us what Japan tells him. He's not going to jeopardize his job by speculating on a pre-production product or releasing information without Japan's approval. Not many other companies offer such direct contact service for their products. So there is good in Uniden...just don't like how the scanner side has been handled. I have 4 different Uniden scanners and prefer my 2 Motorola XTS5Ks. Honest feedback...if it were half price I would still would not buy it.

 

[Ubbe]

To get more money is my guess. Have to buy an extra battery for the scanner so you can swap out when charging. Add a charger to charge said battery because the scanner cannot be on and charge at the same time. Just my opinion though.

Some dash cameras use a smart way of using batteries from other devices that have a huge sale and are wide spread. My dash camera uses GoPro batteries. But there is a huge profit to be made from selling accessories like batteries. Motorola always have new battery dimensions when a new mobile phone or 2-way radio comes out. The same is true for their connectors for external audio devices and program cables.

I wish Uniden would concider using a mainstream battery with a standard sized connector like the ones used for radio controlled models. That would make it easy to get spares and eventually choosing from different capacities as the technology quickly moves forward with higher capacities in the same package size.

/Ubbe

 

[belvdr]

The answer is two-fold. A California law made it illegal to charge unless using USB (that's effectively the just of the law as it applies).

The second part is this: You have a current limitation of 500 mA (lowest common denominator). It takes about that much to RUN the scanner. It takes about that much to CHARGE the scanner.

Why can't you run and charge at the same time? Because you can't use the same current twice. Running and charging would take about 1000 mA which would burn out the ports of USB2 supplies. Can you imagine the ensuing whining that would take place?

That said, I hope Uniden has found some way around that. It's too much to ask that CA rescind it's law, but perhaps there is another way.

*sigh* Looks my post was deleted.

The limitations you speak of are on computer ports, not necessarily wall chargers. Many devices detect the available current and run the device first and will also charge it if additional current is available.

Why can't Uniden do the same?

 

[eorange]

Regarding proprietary battery packs...that's what the G4 uses, and it's pretty substantial and long-lasting. I've rarely felt like I'd be stuck without a hot spare. So as long as Uniden provides a quality battery pack, I don't see much reason for worry.

Also, I can charge the G4 via micro USB while listening, which means USB is not the limiting factor.

 

[mikewazowski]

*sigh* Looks my post was deleted.



The limitations you speak of are on computer ports, not necessarily wall chargers. Many devices detect the available current and run the device first and will also charge it if additional current is available.



Why can't Uniden do the same?

Gents, please take the USB power discussion to another thread. It's hard enough trying to find information in this thread.

 

[mtindor]

Further, just because a radio is software defined, don't expect perfect, or even better LSM performance. RTL SDR dongles don't get me any better performance. It's the quality of the receiver.

Tell that foolishness to KA1RBI (Max). He and the OP25 crowd have made it possible for any of us to use a simple, cheap DVB-T dongle to decode LSM perfectly. If an RTL dongle doesn't get you any better performance, you're doing it wrong.

If you have the right hardware (and it sounds like Uniden does now), there is no reason for it not to decode LSM (aside from coding issues).

Mike

 

[garys]

Not too many people pay MSRP. The street price is always less. If I were to buy one, I'd figure in the cost of the DMR and NXDN upgrades as well. Which would likely bring the price up to around the MSRP.

I'll probably just hang around and wait for a good deal from an unhappy early adopter who vows never to buy Uniden again. Until the next time, of course.

The MSRP for the BC250D with P25 card was $800, and that's not adjusting for inflation. New tech is never cheap.