SDS100: SDS100 with DMR Tier II and DMR Tier III

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dazza0768

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Feb 18, 2019
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Location
Timaru, New Zealand
Hi All.

I have a weird one for ya.
Here in New Zealand we have all types of weird digital radio here.
I have found a channel which is DMR, frequency 164.9125. It belongs to company X.
Around this spectrum company X has alot of single DMR frequencies which work well on my SDS100, it shows DMR as the digital type when recieving transmissions.
Company X does not have any control channels or any Tier 3 systems, but I have found a single channel of theirs that is showing as DMR Tier 3 on the scanner. This is a problem as T3 is meant to be a trunked platform so OFT programming will not allow that single T3 channel to be listened to, it blocks it out after about 2 seconds. If I program that single T3 frequency in a MotoTRBO system it will stay dead understandably without an existing control channel.
The only way I can listen to this single frequency, which only has about 5 TGIDs, is to program it as a conventional channel in it's own little system. The downside is I cannot save any TGIDs in a department.

This has got me researching and thinking, does the SDS100 show DMRT2 on the screen for Tier 2 systems? I have no experience for T2 and I haven't seem T2 are all. I understand from research is T2 is basically an OFT???

It is a weird one and no before people try to assume there is definitely no Control channel as "Company X" doesn't have any Tier 3 systems which are trunked.

The tier 3 channel has a repeater setup as -
RADIO ACTIVITY KAIROS KA-160

Their single DMR OFT repeaters are - TAIT TB7300 SLIMLINE DMR BASE STATION/REPEATER
 

Australia4001

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Western Australia
I listen to a t3 dmr tait system, the control channel runs 24/7 , the control channel is also is the voice channel , the frequency displays Tier 3 .

You should be able to create a mototrbo system in scanner , and just add all the site frequencies you think belong to same user ,

It's also possible an unlicensed frequency is in use as part of system
 

dazza0768

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Feb 18, 2019
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199
Location
Timaru, New Zealand
I know the LCN but because there is no control channel at all I cant program as mototrbo. Its deaf unless I program as conventional. OFT programming jams the transmission as its T3.
I think it's a one off Frankenstein frequency cheaply setup for either a very large farm business or several farms to use.

Thanks for info Ubbe, we have a little bit of CAP+ and a massive Con+.
 

Ubbe

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Stockholm, Sweden
Program as MotoTrbo and let LCN finder try to find the LCN. Perhaps it's LCN 1 so you could try that first and see if that works in normal scan.
How is the transmisison on that frequency? Is it a constant datasignal or a burst type with a few seconds interval or it's dead until it is in use and then stops transmitting after the call have ended?If it's D3 then it could be that you haven't found the control channel frequency?

Do you have another conventioanl scanner that you can have searching using 6,25KHs steps through the whole 160-170MHz range? The SDS100 are terrible in VHF with lots of interferencies and blocked frequencies that could hide your control channel frequency. Also verify with another scanner that you actually have that TierIII signalling on the frequency, it could be a mirror frequency or intermod you are receiving with the SD1S00.

/Ubbe
 

dazza0768

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Joined
Feb 18, 2019
Messages
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Location
Timaru, New Zealand
I know the LCNs from the government license records, definitely no control channel for the listed company, tried all of their frequencies.
Listed as a trbo system doesn't do anything, doesn't like LCN finder.
Basically its alot of chatter then it's dead until it transmits again like it is a traffic channel but I can confirm there is definitely no trunking with this one.
It's a weird one, I believe it's a strange Frankenstein channel as all traffic is heard on this one channel, no missed parts of transmissions.
Definitely interesting.
I'd say its built to suit the farms or farm involved.
 

Ubbe

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The TierIII systems I monitor always starts to populate calls on the highest LCN and it's hardly more than two simultanious calls so that one voice call frequency with two slots will be used in the way you explain. The constant data signalling frequency have a voice slot but I've never seen it in use.

I can't see how a DMR radio can be programmed to only use one voice frequency without any datachannel in TierIII. If they made a very special firmware for those radio, what would the purpose be and what are the benefits? I see no reason to do that. I still think that your control channel frequency are "hidden" to you and needs to be found.

/Ubbe
 

Gadget_Man

Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
5
Location
Queenstown ( New Zealand )
Hi All.

I have a weird one for ya.
Here in New Zealand we have all types of weird digital radio here.
I have found a channel which is DMR, frequency 164.9125. It belongs to company X.
Around this spectrum company X has alot of single DMR frequencies which work well on my SDS100, it shows DMR as the digital type when recieving transmissions.
Company X does not have any control channels or any Tier 3 systems, but I have found a single channel of theirs that is showing as DMR Tier 3 on the scanner. This is a problem as T3 is meant to be a trunked platform so OFT programming will not allow that single T3 channel to be listened to, it blocks it out after about 2 seconds. If I program that single T3 frequency in a MotoTRBO system it will stay dead understandably without an existing control channel.
The only way I can listen to this single frequency, which only has about 5 TGIDs, is to program it as a conventional channel in it's own little system. The downside is I cannot save any TGIDs in a department.

This has got me researching and thinking, does the SDS100 show DMRT2 on the screen for Tier 2 systems? I have no experience for T2 and I haven't seem T2 are all. I understand from research is T2 is basically an OFT???

It is a weird one and no before people try to assume there is definitely no Control channel as "Company X" doesn't have any Tier 3 systems which are trunked.

The tier 3 channel has a repeater setup as -
RADIO ACTIVITY KAIROS KA-160

Their single DMR OFT repeaters are - TAIT TB7300 SLIMLINE DMR BASE STATION/REPEATER
Hi iam in nz too. Iam in queenstown we only DMR ham repeater/CAP+ and Tier 3 systems no P25 systems. Only system i can not work out is Tier 3 systems
 

Gadget_Man

Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
5
Location
Queenstown ( New Zealand )
Hi All.

I have a weird one for ya.
Here in New Zealand we have all types of weird digital radio here.
I have found a channel which is DMR, frequency 164.9125. It belongs to company X.
Around this spectrum company X has alot of single DMR frequencies which work well on my SDS100, it shows DMR as the digital type when recieving transmissions.
Company X does not have any control channels or any Tier 3 systems, but I have found a single channel of theirs that is showing as DMR Tier 3 on the scanner. This is a problem as T3 is meant to be a trunked platform so OFT programming will not allow that single T3 channel to be listened to, it blocks it out after about 2 seconds. If I program that single T3 frequency in a MotoTRBO system it will stay dead understandably without an existing control channel.
The only way I can listen to this single frequency, which only has about 5 TGIDs, is to program it as a conventional channel in it's own little system. The downside is I cannot save any TGIDs in a department.

This has got me researching and thinking, does the SDS100 show DMRT2 on the screen for Tier 2 systems? I have no experience for T2 and I haven't seem T2 are all. I understand from research is T2 is basically an OFT???

It is a weird one and no before people try to assume there is definitely no Control channel as "Company X" doesn't have any Tier 3 systems which are trunked.

The tier 3 channel has a repeater setup as -
RADIO ACTIVITY KAIROS KA-160

Their single DMR OFT repeaters are - TAIT TB7300 SLIMLINE DMR BASE STATION/REPEATER
TierII are shown as Cap+ and Con and so on.
You can't use the LCN finder on that frequency?

/Ubbe
You can use the LCN finder on CAP+ System will not work on TierIII system.
 

dazza0768

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2019
Messages
199
Location
Timaru, New Zealand
The TierIII systems I monitor always starts to populate calls on the highest LCN and it's hardly more than two simultanious calls so that one voice call frequency with two slots will be used in the way you explain. The constant data signalling frequency have a voice slot but I've never seen it in use.

I can't see how a DMR radio can be programmed to only use one voice frequency without any datachannel in TierIII. If they made a very special firmware for those radio, what would the purpose be and what are the benefits? I see no reason to do that. I still think that your control channel frequency are "hidden" to you and needs to be found.

/Ubbe
Not hidden, doesn't exist. Its just a special case that the comms company have built for the people who use it.
 

Ubbe

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Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
7,727
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
Those are LSN, Logical Slot Numbers, one number for each slot that DSD and radios uses. Uniden scanners use LCN, Logical Channel Numbers, that are one number for each frequency.

/Ubbe
 

dazza0768

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2019
Messages
199
Location
Timaru, New Zealand
Those are LSN, Logical Slot Numbers, one number for each slot that DSD and radios uses. Uniden scanners use LCN, Logical Channel Numbers, that are one number for each frequency.

/Ubbe
The document shows LCN for Tier 3.
Have a look at the TD band. TD09 to TD480 are LCNs. TD band is all trunking here.
 

dazza0768

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2019
Messages
199
Location
Timaru, New Zealand
doesn't work for any other digital format. Only DMR Tier3. I can confirm for tier3 that the channel numbers on PIB23 document I have listed are LCNs.
 
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