SDS200 Not Savings Settings When Powered Off

[innokuous1]

I've been asked to troubleshoot an SDS200 problem in a fire chiefs vehicle.

The scanner turns on/off with the ignition and doesn't save any of the settings
that were made while using the scanner (ie: avoids, permanent lockouts etc...)
unless he manually turns the scanner off.

I noticed that when he turns his vehicle off the screen goes blank immediately.
If he turns it off with the on/off knob the display shows "writing to SD card"
and his settings are saved.

What puzzles me is that there's another chief's car with an SDS200 wired the
same way and that scanner doesn't have this problem.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[doctordialtone]

Any thoughts on this?

You're aware of the difference between a temporary avoid and a permanent avoid?

Read here..

I suspect his temp avoids are being restored when the power comes back on.

 

[innokuous1]

You're aware of the difference between a temporary avoid and a permanent avoid?

Read here..

I suspect his temp avoids are being restored when the power comes back on.

I'm aware.

My initial thought was he didn't know the difference but I was able to duplicate his complaint with permanent avoids.
It's also happening with System/Department/Channel configurations not being saved.

 

[dave3825]

On the one that’s not saving, is the record/replay setting turned on or off?

 

[trentbob]

Just my two cents here. With the radio on and the motor running have the chief set pretty much everything the way he wants it on the card. Have him then turn the radio off. Then he will see that it goes through the process of saving everything. Then turn the motor off.

Have him take the card out of the radio stick it in Sentinel transfer data from the card to his profile, then transfer it back to the card, now there's a record the way he wants it.

Put the card back in the radio. Start the motor, then turn on the radio, no matter how you have your power source set up he will not have the luxury of the radio going on and off with the ignition even though that capability is set up. He must turn the radio off and let it remember what's on the card before he turns a motor off. He must start up the motor before he turns the radio on. It's not supposed to be that way but because power is cut off to the radio, before the radio stores the changes to the card he's losing those changes.
Can't say that it's fair or that it's really supposed to work that way and maybe it's not wired right but, always turn the radio off and save the data before turning off the motor and always turn the motor on before powering on the radio.

 

[innokuous1]

On the one that’s not saving, is the record/replay setting turned on or off?

It could take a day or two for me to check on that. I'll let you know when I know.

 

[donc13]

I've been asked to troubleshoot an SDS200 problem in a fire chiefs vehicle.

The scanner turns on/off with the ignition and doesn't save any of the settings
that were made while using the scanner (ie: avoids, permanent lockouts etc...)
unless he manually turns the scanner off.

I noticed that when he turns his vehicle off the screen goes blank immediately.
If he turns it off with the on/off knob the display shows "writing to SD card"
and his settings are saved.

What puzzles me is that there's another chief's car with an SDS200 wired the
same way and that scanner doesn't have this problem.

Any thoughts on this?

On and off with the ignition is the problem. In fact, that can damage the SD Card if it's doing a write when turned off by pulling power.

 

[dave3825]

On and off with the ignition is the problem. In fact, that can damage the SD Card if it's doing a write when turned off by pulling power.

I thought I read somewhere that if replay was not enabled it would not try to write when powered off via an ignition. It could be the Epoxy and Polyester fumes getting to me but I really seem to remember something to that effect.

 

[trentbob]

I thought I read somewhere that if replay was not enabled it would not try to write when powered off via an ignition. It could be the Epoxy and Polyester fumes getting to me but I really seem to remember something to that effect.

I've never attempted it but it depends if the chief's car is wired directly to the battery using the normal pin power plug or if it's hooked up to the ignition using the orange wires that go into the ignition power input on the back of the radio.

Out of my wheelhouse because no matter how it works anytime you have a data card in the radio you always take the chance of damaging it or corrupting it, as has had been said.

@innokuous1, is the power source connected to the regular power input which is a round plug on the back of the radio or is the orange wires being used and plugged into the power input on the back of the radio for ignition? If so it may be hooked up wrong.

Like I say I've never done it, I just use the regular power input connected to the power source and always make sure the motor is on before turning the radio on and the motor is on before turning the radio off, letting cycle through storing changes on the data card.

 

[donc13]

I thought I read somewhere that if replay was not enabled it would not try to write when powered off via an ignition. It could be the Epoxy and Polyester fumes getting to me but I really seem to remember something to that effect.

Nope, while not trying to record/replay while "pulling the power" is "the big no no" as far as corrupting the SD card, surges or spikes due to engine starts/stops can also be not so nice to electronics and powered electronics.

All else aside, if the chief wants to save his/her settings.. As mentioned by others, the volume/power switch must be used to turn the unit off (and wait until the settings are saved) the SDS200 power (12v or 120v) can then be shut off. Ideally, you should start the engine before turning on power also.

That's MY opinion based on MY experience. I have corrupted one SD card by turning on and shutting off power in my RV by the ignition. Once I hard wired the 12v plug to constant 12v (the lead to the 12v outlets in the dash that are always powered in my Ford cutaway chassis) and turned the radio on/off via the SDS200's power switch... Zero corruption and it has been over 3 years now.

YMMV

 

[N9JIG]

I thought I read somewhere that if replay was not enabled it would not try to write when powered off via an ignition. It could be the Epoxy and Polyester fumes getting to me but I really seem to remember something to that effect.

Turning off the Replay/recording functions seriously reduces the chance of the scanner's SD Card getting corrupted but does not eliminate it entirely. Before I figured that out I was getting a corrupted card at least once a month on my 536's in the car, after I turned off Replay/recording I have yet to have a corrupted card, it has been 8 years.

As for the OP's issue, the SDS and X36 scanners will save the Permanent Avoids and other changes when the radio is shut off politely (by the volume knob while power is present). They will typically be lost when powered down impolitely (by the ignition switch). When I have some permanent avoids I want to really remain permanent I turn the radio off with the volume knob to save them to the SD Card.

You also may want to consider creating a couple spare SD Cards for when the radio inevitably corrupts them. I swear the presence of a programmed spare prevents the original one from corrupting! I keep one in the battery door of each of my handhelds and in the car for my mobiles.

 

[donc13]

I've never attempted it but it depends if the chief's car is wired directly to the battery using the normal pin power plug or if it's hooked up to the ignition using the orange wires that go into the ignition power input on the back of the radio.

Out of my wheelhouse because no matter how it works anytime you have a data card in the radio you always take the chance of damaging it or corrupting it, as has had been said.

@innokuous1, is the power source connected to the regular power input which is a round plug on the back of the radio or is the orange wires being used and plugged into the power input on the back of the radio for ignition? If so it may be hooked up wrong.

Like I say I've never done it, I just use the regular power input connected to the power source and always make sure the motor is on before turning the radio on and the motor is on before turning the radio off, letting cycle through storing changes on the data card.

The SDS200 "orange" wire is not where power is drawn. It's the sensor wire that can be connected to the headlights so when you turn your headlights on, the SDS200 display is dimmed.

The Red and Black wires on the 12v connector are power.

 

[trentbob]

The SDS200 "orange" wire is not where power is drawn. It's the sensor wire that can be connected to the headlights so when you turn your headlights on, the SDS200 display is dimmed.

The Red and Black wires on the 12v connector are power.

Oh okay, as I said, totally out of my wheelhouse, I learn something new everyday, so then that means it's just as simple as can be, you cannot use the ignition to turn the radio on and off, especially off, it will not save any changes on the data card as you cut the power before it had a chance to cycle through remembering them. That's the answer. Thanks.

 

[n1chu]

I thought I read somewhere that if replay was not enabled it would not try to write when powered off via an ignition. It could be the Epoxy and Polyester fumes getting to me but I really seem to remember something to that effect.

You read correctly. As long as “Replay” AND “Record” are turned off you won’t get a glitch when shutting the scanner down by divorcing power. I’ve been running my SDS200 and the 536HP before that and have never had a problem shutting them down by shutting down power to them with the ignition because I don’t bother with Replay or Record.

Apparently the vehicle install you are inspecting has one or both features turned on where the other vehicle did not.

 

[Ubbe]

All writes to the SD card regarding permanent avoids, selected favorite lists in scan, and pretty much every setting, are withhold in memory and are written to SD card when powered off by the volume control. If the power line are cut it will not have time to save anything and will use whatever where stored to the SD card at the last successful manual power off.

I wish Uniden could change the headlight sense to instead be an ignition signal to power the scanner on and off in a controlled manner, after the ignition signal have not changed for 5 sec to handle engine starts where the battery voltage could go low. Or being user selected what function it should have. I guess most people anyhow just change backlight by pushing the volume control. Why doesn't scanners have a phototransistor to sense ambient light and change backlight automatically, like any low budget mobile phone can do? Then also have a couple of offset values positive an negative to set the display to be a bit brighter or darker depending of user preference. Uniden can do a lot to improve scanner use for its users.

/Ubbe

 

[eaf1956]

I've been asked to troubleshoot an SDS200 problem in a fire chiefs vehicle.

The scanner turns on/off with the ignition and doesn't save any of the settings
that were made while using the scanner (ie: avoids, permanent lockouts etc...)
unless he manually turns the scanner off.

I noticed that when he turns his vehicle off the screen goes blank immediately.
If he turns it off with the on/off knob the display shows "writing to SD card"
and his settings are saved.

What puzzles me is that there's another chief's car with an SDS200 wired the
same way and that scanner doesn't have this problem.

Any thoughts on this?

The SDS 200 will not save to the SD Card if powered down other than with the scanner's knob. This was discussed when the SDS 200 came out, just have him power down the scanner with the VOL knob before turning the engine off.

 

[trentbob]

All writes to the SD card regarding permanent avoids, selected favorite lists in scan, and pretty much every setting, are withhold in memory and are written to SD card when powered off by the volume control. If the power line are cut it will not have time to save anything and will use whatever where stored to the SD card at the last successful manual power off.

I wish Uniden could change the headlight sense to instead be an ignition signal to power the scanner on and off in a controlled manner, after the ignition signal have not changed for 5 sec to handle engine starts where the battery voltage could go low. Or being user selected what function it should have. I guess most people anyhow just change backlight by pushing the volume control. Why doesn't scanners have a phototransistor to sense ambient light and change backlight automatically, like any low budget mobile phone can do? Then also have a couple of offset values positive an negative to set the display to be a bit brighter or darker depending of user preference. Uniden can do a lot to improve scanner use for its users.

/Ubbe

Without ever caring what it was with the orange wires and separate input, I thought it was what you wish Uniden would do. Of course that's never going to happen, but I appreciate it. I was just understanding how data cards are corrupted by sudden interruptions of power, but not knowing the difference between the normal power source and the orange wired separate input on the back of the radio but, I agree.

I certainly know the difference now.

 

[n1chu]

All writes to the SD card regarding permanent avoids, selected favorite lists in scan, and pretty much every setting, are withhold in memory and are written to SD card when powered off by the volume control. If the power line are cut it will not have time to save anything and will use whatever where stored to the SD card at the last successful manual power off.

I wish Uniden could change the headlight sense to instead be an ignition signal to power the scanner on and off in a controlled manner, after the ignition signal have not changed for 5 sec to handle engine starts where the battery voltage could go low. Or being user selected what function it should have. I guess most people anyhow just change backlight by pushing the volume control. Why doesn't scanners have a phototransistor to sense ambient light and change backlight automatically, like any low budget mobile phone can do? Then also have a couple of offset values positive an negative to set the display to be a bit brighter or darker depending of user preference. Uniden can do a lot to improve scanner use for its users.

/Ubbe

 

[n1chu]

Agreeing with /Ubbe.

I had occasion where I too had a mobile two-way radio, a BCD536HP (replaced with the SDS200) and a roof mounted light bar installation, much like the Chief’s car at the center of the OP’s question. The light bar and radio were wired directly to the battery, both leads were fused and the proper guaged wire was used. However, the scanner was different. I have chosen a power connection at the fuse box inside the passenger compartment that is powered by the ignition switch, my sole intention was/is to have my radios (I also have a ham transceiver) shut off with the vehicle’s ignition switch. When the vehicle is turned off everything goes off including the SDS200… without a chance to write any changes to the SD Card. I have never used the “Replay” or “Record” features. I have never needed to replace the SD Card (but do have two spares, one for the vehicle and one for the house, I have 2 SDS200’s) which I will update from time to time. If I ever do have a problem, I’ve got my backup SD Cards. When I make a change to the SDS200 in my vehicle I simply remember to first use the recommended method for turning the scanner off. After it has written to the SD Card and shuts down, I then turn it back on. Now that my changes have been saved I’m good to go.

The OP need only to do three things…

1) Turn off replay/record

2) Instruct the chief when making changes such as “Avoiding” or “Unavoiding”, to turn off the scanner using the recommended method AFTER the changes have been made. Wait for the scanner to finish writing to the SD Card, which saves your changes. And THEN turn the radio back on. It takes only seconds to write to the card.

3) And, just in case the Chief is interested as to WHY his scanner was acting the way it was, you can explain it to him. (But it’s been my experience Chief Officers are more interested in things that work and discard that which doesn’t… in which case, tell him you shut off the replay/record features as it is the only way the scanner will shut off with the ignition. I believe powering the scanner in this manner (using the ignition) is probably the best method in the fire service for a few reasons. One is fire apparatus usually use a battery switch that divorces all battery power with the exception of mobile charging cradles for the portable radios and meters, etc. with lesser power requirements. The battery switch is pretty much engrained into the fire service so it’s used in the volunteer firefighter’s personal vehicle. Because no one wants to come back from a fire to a dead battery in your personal vehicle, all due to a failure to shut off a warning light or radio.

 

[innokuous1]

In response to Post #4, the record/replay setting is set to off.

......so the Chief will have to accept the fact that he has to power off his scanner manually to save his changes.

Thank you to all who responded to my post.