Search ranges for Public Safety and Business Radio

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EricCottrell

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Hello,

In recent messages it has become clear that I do not know all the frequency ranges to search for public safety and business radio systems in Eastern Canada. Some ranges like 138 to 144 are used by Government here in the Boston, MA area but mainly for Military or Civil Air Patrol non-trunked systems. 420 - 430 MHz is not used here but is used in the Chicago area.

Is there radio allocation information available from the Canadian government?

Here is my understanding of Eastern Canada allocations.

138 - 144 Government with some trunked systems (Big trunked systems in Ontario and Quebec 142 - 144)
148 - 174 Business (and Government?)
406 - 420 Canadian Forces? Some trunked systems at CF Bases
420 - 430? Business and Government (RCMP 421, 422)
450 - 470 Business (and Government?) (Repeater outputs 451 - 455 and 461 - 465 with 5 MHz split)
851 - 869 Business and Public Safety
935 - 940 Business

73 Eric
 

mikewazowski

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EricCottrell said:
Hello,

138 - 144 Government with some trunked systems (Big trunked systems in Ontario and Quebec 142 - 144)
148 - 174 Business (and Government?)
406 - 420 Canadian Forces? Some trunked systems at CF Bases
420 - 430? Business and Government (RCMP 421, 422)
450 - 470 Business (and Government?) (Repeater outputs 451 - 455 and 461 - 465 with 5 MHz split)
851 - 869 Business and Public Safety
935 - 940 Business

Unfortunately, things aren't that simple.

Generally police seem to be found between 138-144. With the new provincial system, you'll now find a lot of government agencies. I know of at least one public works department, several commercial paging stations and at least one school bus company (privately owned) all hanging down there.

I've never heard of any military bases between 406 and 420. The local one here is trunked between 148-152 (outputs) with the inputs way up above 170Mhz. The other bases I've heard have all been vhf simplex and repeatered.

About all you can count on is finding most police services between 138-144 and fire anywhere between 150-160Mhz.
 

DaveH

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I'll throw in what I know to help muddy the waters :) concentrating on
Ontario/Quebec which are most familiar, and skip over low-band (bad
pun?)

138-144MHz is used by all levels of gov't (federal/provincial/municipal)
plus some commercial use including pesky pagers. There is no universal
repeater spacing although -4.020 (Ont) and -3.990 (Que.) are common
for outputs in the 142-144 range. Some 143MHz repeaters have inputs
in the 148MHz range. Municipal PDs were very heavy in this area before
800MHz trunking came along.

148-160MHz takes in a mix of government, military and commercial.
160-162MHz (roughly) is similar to U.S. with rail and marine. 162-174
is primarily commercial (unlike the U.S. which I believe is exclusively gov't),
with some gov't and military.

406-420 is primarily gov't services (all levels) with some commercial
use including links (most 414/419MHz) which includes pager links. In
Quebec, this band is favoured for municipal police and fire (although they
also use the 150MHz bands). Police MDTs used to hang out around
406-409 and some may still.

420-421 is paired with 409-410 and traditionally used for links, including
rural radio-telephone links in (relatively) remote areas such as Manitoulin
Island; but recently has seen new trunking assignments. There is some FD
and PD in here. I can pick up a link to the local weather TX on 420.0500 .

421-422 as previously mentioned seems to be mostly RCMP and CSIS;
inputs +5 (and reportedly +4MHz in some cases). They have some above
that but 422-425 is primarily commercial (including trunking). 422MHz is where
one of the first trunked systems in Ottawa showed up (GE Marc-V) over
20 years back. Currently there's MPT-1327 in the Quinte area (Belleville) and
LTR/Passport etc. from the Montreal area.

450-451 and 455-456 are broadcast link sub-bands similar to the U.S.
The rest of the band is commercial. PD, FD, and gov't services don't use
the 453/460MHz bands as south of the border, maybe with the odd
exception (they use 406-420). Repeater sub-bands are 451-455 and
460-465 with +5.0000, +4.9875, or +5.0125MHz spacing. Simplex use
varies but in my area it is primarily 453/458MHz and 464/469MHz channels.

There is no UHF "T-band" in Canada; 470-512 is still TV broadcast.

851-869 usage is similar to the U.S.; a mix of commercial and gov't.
Standard -45MHz spacing applies.

902-928 is of course the "ISM band" packed with such Industrial/Scientific/
Medical devices (right!) as cordless phones, baby monitors, intercoms, and
wireless head- phones, but it's also a radiolocation band. Transit it Ottawa
(OC Transpo) is licensed for a fixed-signpost/proximity type of VLS on some
oddball frequencies; mildly interesting but not much fun to listen to.

928-932 is paired with 952-956 for non-voice point-multipoint systems
including hydro/water SCADA, telemetry, traffic light control, and my
favourite, high-powered pagers (up to a kW or more).

932-935 is paired with 941-944 for links. Some of these are digital/
multi-channel between trunked sites. OPP used a few 932/941Mhz pairs
on their old system.

935-940MHz is for trunking (-39MHz spacing) as in the U.S.. Mobitex seems
to hang out in the 938-940MHz part although not exclusively. There's also
the rail data system (ATCS) in the high 935MHz range. I've heard U.S.
mobitex in this range also (935.8625).

Last I heard, 944-948 and 948-952MHz were assigned to low-power
digital indoor phone systems using CT2+ standard. Canadian Tire and some
other large retailers use this (Nortel Companion system, typ.). It's TDD
(ping-pong) with TX and RX on the same frequencies. All digital and 17mW
maximum power even for the base stations. There may be other uses
though.

STL's occupy 956-960MHz.

And.... that's about as high up the spectrum as I go!

Dave
 

EricCottrell

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Hello,

Thanks all for the information. It will be very useful on my trips to Canada.

In 2003 I picked up a Motorola trunked system near Barrie, ON in the 406 to 420 band that I assumed was Canadian Federal Government or Military. Now I know better. Some band usage is the same but there are differences in the VHF and UHF spectrum.

I thought previously that CRTC ran the whole radio allocations as there were compared to the FCC. From the web link provided I see Industry Canada controls land mobile radio and other radio services. I explored the Industry Canada site and it is confusing because it does not seem to be any centralized codified regulations. If I want information on Land Mobile it appears I have to look in various documents to get an idea of the bands used, channel spacing, etc. I may go through some of the documents and make notes before heading north.

73 Eric
 

DaveH

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EricCottrell said:
Hello,

In 2003 I picked up a Motorola trunked system near Barrie, ON in the 406 to 420 band that I assumed was Canadian Federal Government or Military.

73 Eric

Eric,

Are you sure it was in that band ? (I don't recall hearing any recently). There are 2 or 3 in the 422-424MHz sub-band, all commercial activity. Two are listed in the TRS DB under Sitecom Services.

Dave
 

mikewazowski

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EricCottrell said:
Hello,

In 2003 I picked up a Motorola trunked system near Barrie, ON in the 406 to 420 band that I assumed was Canadian Federal Government or Military. Now I know better. Some band usage is the same but there are differences in the VHF and UHF spectrum.

Definitely not military or Federal Government.

There are no systems between 406-420Mhz in the Barrie area.

Between 406-420Mhz you can reliably hear about 3 systems, all commercial.

The local military base uses a vhf trunk system between 148 and 152Mhz.
 

IdleMonitor

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I hear Provincial EMS communications in the 410-420 range. As well as frequencies licensed to the County. Pager sytems are in and around here also. And numerous provincial police frequencies.
 

DaveH

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EricCottrell said:
Hello,


In 2003 I picked up a Motorola trunked system near Barrie, ON in the 406 to 420 band that I assumed was Canadian Federal Government or Military.
73 Eric

If you can recall the frequency, run it by us (esp. Mike-O who lives a lot closer than I do...). It could be another digital non-trunking usage. In Ottawa there's some Environment Canada telemetry on 469.475 that sounds like a Moto 3600 CC and has fooled a few people. In that case, the frequency is a give-away because repeater outputs are not found in that part of the band.

Dave
 
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