Select System

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brusso99

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Select System and Rant

Can someone tell me what the point of select system is if when you pick something off the list, if that group is off via quick key, let's say 25 north dade it says 25 north dade nothing to scan. Then to scan it you have to press .no 25 to turn on that sys. So what purpose does select system serve if selecting the system does not turn the system on for scanning.

Frankly it's annoying, let's say I don't want to assign any quick keys because I don't want to remember them or program the quick key number in the name them how do you turn on and off systems for that matter? Lockouts? And why are multiple sites in a system showing up
I'm my top level scroll? Ie system airforce sites are broward, Dade, palm beach, Martian, and so on and I get those sites as systems and god forbid there are 200 sites in the system between 10 coral springs Pd and 12 Miami Pd I have to knob through 200 sites when it should just say 11 air force. But no. How about when I hit the wrong key and it says add TGId yes no and I hit no and guess what does it go back to what I was doing, not a chance it pretends I said yes and bring us the next screen.

Hands down this product is the most poorly documented and poorly designed piece of equipment from usability standpoint I have ever used. It's unacceptable and the number of posts daily from people frustrated proves the point. Where is the documentation for this 500 dollar unit?? That cd is not a manual it's not even good work for a gradeschooler let alone a large cooporation like uniden. We should all be demanding they release a full manual and even put up some videos or someone should put up some videos of how hard it is to work this unit.

Don't even think about saying I don't get it I have been working with computers since the comodore 64 the trs80 and scanners since my old 20 channel with woodgrain. This unit needs to be redesigned from the ground up. If I don't get it then there is an issue.
 
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KE4ZNR

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Don't even think about saying I don't get it I have been working with computers since the comodore 64 the trs80 and scanners since my old 20 channel with woodgrain. This unit needs to be redesigned from the ground up. If I don't get it then there is an issue.
YOU DON'T GET IT.

The radio works great. Perhaps your thinking needs to be redesigned from the ground up. It is not Uniden's fault if you decide to not take the time to learn how scanners are designed to work with public safety communications systems that are in use today.
I understand your frustration in that there is a lot to learn and that the radios of today are much more complicated than the scanners of years past but you need to adapt and learn to keep up with the hobby.
Both GRE & Uniden manufacture complicated radios.
Unless you are willing to learn how the radios work you will never get too far in the hobby.
Those of us veteran "Radio Geeks" are more than happy to help you out as long as you are open minded to new ideas and suggestions.
Marshall KE4ZNR
 

brusso99

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Marshall, you prove my point, whenever someone posts about being frustrated and annoyed with this unit they get exactly the response you just gave. I do very much get it. This is a poorly designed interface, with little or no doumentation or support from the company. its extremly overpriced for the lack of intuitive usability. There are hundreds of posts of people having issues. Your blanket statement that i have not taken the time to lean how the scanner works is beyond infurating, you have no idea how much time i have wasted on this unit. how many searches, wiki's forums and other materials i have read. As for people willing to help all i see is your rush to say radio awesome user bad, where is a single answer to a question i asked in this thread? there is none. are you a veteran radio geek or a veteran forum hall monitor.


THE 996xT has the mostly poorly designed user experiance of any electronics product on the market hands down!!! on top of that if it was not teathered to a computer 24-7 to make up for how bad it works i would have returned it. IT is completly useless without a computer. which makes me cringe at the concept of buying a handheld to go with it. It takes numerious work arounds and once you set it dont touch it.. Its a great feature set, this is why i picked it, but dont touch it.. set it and forget it.. it will bite.

Brett
 
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UPMan

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Can someone tell me what the point of select system is if when you pick something off the list, if that group is off via quick key, let's say 25 north dade it says 25 north dade nothing to scan. Then to scan it you have to press .no 25 to turn on that sys. So what purpose does select system serve if selecting the system does not turn the system on for scanning.
Since multiple sites or systems could be set to the same SQK, having the SQK of the selected site (or system) enabled when you select a site/system from the list would often result in multiple sites/systems being enabled. So, it was a design choice to not have the scanner do that. Instead, when you select a site/system from the list, the scanner will unlock that site or system (if it was locked out), but the SQK still needs to be enabled in order for the site/system to be scanned.

Had we made the other design choice (enable the SQK), instead, I'm sure that there would have been complaints that the scanner was poorly designed because it was turning on multiple sites/systems when the user selected only one. As it is, yours is the first complaint (in nearly 6 years of this operating method) I've seen regarding this design choice.

Summary: In order to be scanned, a site/system's SQK (if any) must be enabled and that site/system must be unlocked (two different things).
 

brusso99

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so let me understand a best way to work the scanner..

1. set a quick key to each system, then dont turn them off with quick keys, turn them off by l/o then when i select system scroll it will unlock that one automaticly. Or use quick keys and dont bother selecting systems at all? right now each one of my systems has a quick key number in the name lik 1-coral springs, etc?

Thanks for the reply.

I have some other questions that are hanging me up..

a system has a group of frequencies as in 40 city sites and then 8 or so talk groups do I only use the site closest to me and still get all the traffic? Because it's annoying to have all the sites marked as systems in the select site scroll dialog.

2 I have a large trunk system with 33 tg that I want to split up but it has 20 control channels do I program all the control channels for each duplicate or do I need. To figure out which talk group is in which group of control channels?

3. what do screen messages stand for like LNK DAT and so on?

4. Where is the complete reference for this unit like i found for the 396?? is the wiki going to be all you put out..

Thanks
Brett
 

UPMan

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1.(a) Most people use SQKs exclusively to turn sites/systems on and off for scanning. The lockout function is used by the Startup Key function and the GPS-controlled scanning function, but my impression is that other than that, most people pretty much ignore that functionality (except to temporarily lockout sites/systems to avoid "nuisance" events). Lockout is used more often for individual channels.

(b) You should program each physical site as a site in the scanner and then only enable the site(s) that are near enough to be reliably received.

In a multisite system, each site typically only carries local traffic. Local traffic is defined as traffic for those talk groups assigned to subscriber units (the transceivers carried by the agencies) affiliated with the site.

Consider the case of a statewide system (like Colorado). It would be impossible for every site to carry all system traffic. So, a site in the southern part of the state would not typically carry traffic for an city in the northern part of the state. However, if a patrol car from that northern city drives south, as that vehicle's radio loses contact with one site, it will affiliate with the next one south as it drives. As it affiliates with each site, the northern city's traffic will be carried on that site...until they lose contact and affiliate with the next site south.

Short answer: A site will typically only carry traffic for local agencies.

2) See (1) (b). Sites and channel groups are not tied together (other than the loose rule of thumb I outline above).

3) Those messages indicate non-voice data (like link control messages) are being received on a P25 system.

4) The 396 and 996 are about 98.73% the same (996 has upside-down display mode, two serial ports, and a different key layout). You can use the 396 Complete Reference to learn about all but 1.27% of the 996's functions.
 

brusso99

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Upman I have attached my file from free scan. i am still abit confused how do i disable the sites not near me, with l/O? the systems with this situation on there are FPL, Carnival crs, monroe county, us dod fl.. if i upload them then i have to scroll through each and every site which adds tons of sites even if i just use scroll select system as a reference to get the quick key. other wise i need to print a reference paper which is honestly a big step back,

How can i get these sites out of the root of the select system scroll?
 

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sjlamb

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I had suggested in a previous thread, and still believe, that you are experiencing some confusion by simply trying to organize too much data covering a huge geographic area all at once. There is no right or wrong way to organize memory or Quick Key assignments. It all depends on what kind of flexability you want to have in accessing the various systems, sites and groups in your listening area.

Depending on how YOU organize and Quick Key YOUR programming will determine how you go about enabling or disabling any particular system, tower site or group. Is there a need to program system control channels that are located at tower sites that are beyond your home range? No... unless you ever intend to travel to any area that will make one of those others tower sites your "new" nearest site. Simply depends on how and where you intend to use the radio.

As previously suggested, most new DMA scanner users gain the best understanding of efficient programming by focusing on creating a memory file that ONLY contains those systems and agencies in thier immediate area. Depending how big that area is, we may be talking about just your local city area or perhaps just those radio systems within say, 15 miles or so of your location. The thought process is to keep this initial memory file small so that it remains relatively simple in its' complexity as to type of systems, number of agencies, number of talkgroups, etc. This will allow the new user to master the art of memory organization and quick key assignment for maximum felxibility. Once you have created a perfectly organized file for your local area, it will be MUCH easier to expand that file to include additional areas by applying what you've learned by creating the "perfect" local file.

In my opinion... the huge file that you are presently trying to organize is the enemy and simply bogging you down with more questions than answers.

Attached is a well organized file for just my immediate area in SW Florida. Use FreeScan to view the file and perhaps it may give you some new ideas on how you might organize and Quick Key your own local file.
 

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UPMan

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Most users do, indeed use a quick reference. I don't know of any who scroll through the sites/systems to select them. I am sorry, but I am out of time at the moment for diving any deeper, but as you can see, there are some others here offering up help.
 

brusso99

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thanks upman..

I still dont see what sites are doing in the system root, i believe this is a firmware issue.. i should see FPL

not

broward, plam beach, and on and on and on in the system select scroll.

Steve,

I have looked at your file, my questions are easy..

1. for manatee county when you scroll systems do you see manatee county in the scroll list or do you see manatee cnty w and manatee cnty e this is only on the scroll list, this is the question i have..

thank for sending me your file. I have two 850 mhz yagi's up and at night i am getting about 50 miles with no issues, covering palm beach to the end of dade. there are a ton of cities in south florida.

can you take a look at broward bso and let me know if you would program all the trunk sites seperate or would you add them all together? i will be creating systems for major cities from this system but i have no idea if i should just add all the sites for each one, which will result in even more of these sites shown as systems on the scroll list?

Broward County Trunking System, Broward County, Florida - Scanner Frequencies


IE
 

UPMan

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Again, that is a design choice. If you selected FPL, then it would unlock every site in that system, which in most cases would be inappropriate. Typically, only one or two sites in a multi-site system are reliably receivable from a particular location. Turning on all of Colorado, for example, when all you want is Denver would be a disaster. What you want to do is enable only the site(s) you can receive.
 

sjlamb

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Steve,

I have looked at your file, my questions are easy..

1. for manatee county when you scroll systems do you see manatee county in the scroll list or do you see manatee cnty w and manatee cnty e this is only on the scroll list, this is the question i have..

IE
When I scroll thru my Systems list, I will only see "Manatee Cnty" on the list as "Manatee (W)" and "Manatee (E)" are individual tower sites within the whole of the "Manatee Cnty" TRS. I could have set each tower site up as its' own system but, why bother? Talkgroups are common to both towers so. I gave each tower site the same Quick Key so that with a single key press, I can disable/enable the entire Manatee TRS if I so choose, in order to focus on what is happening on say, Sarasota County's TRS.
 

brusso99

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Again, that is a design choice. If you selected FPL, then it would unlock every site in that system, which in most cases would be inappropriate. Typically, only one or two sites in a multi-site system are reliably receivable from a particular location. Turning on all of Colorado, for example, when all you want is Denver would be a disaster. What you want to do is enable only the site(s) you can receive.


Upman,

I think there is a miss communication here.

If i have a radio that has a system FPL(SYSTEM) and that system has sites all over the state (sites) I understand its a waste of time to scan the entire state from my location. the problem is that PRESS FUNCTION, SCROLL THE WHEEL and i see all the SITES all OVER the STATE on a list of SYSTEMS. There is something wrong with that logic.

If this can be addressed then i would suggest a flag stored like hide or somethign or get your root level menu "SELECT SYSTEM" not to show sites... WHY is it showing sites on the same Root level as systems.. I need to hide them..

This is the same issue i have with BSO, they have Five SITES and Then All THE TALKGROUPS, I want to split out some city on that system but i dont want to have FIVE SITES showing up for every SYSTEM I SET from that LARGE SYSTEM.

Which would look like this on my scroll list.

Primary Deerfield, and so on and so on..

I want to name it 10 Sunrise, 11 fort lauderdale and so on.. This is an issue please take the time to look into what i am saying about this.

Why you ask,

well lets say i drive around the state and want to monitor different areas it would be nice to have all the sites stored. but i dont want to see them on the menu, kind of like TOWER ONE, TOWER TWO, I dont need this on my select system menu, its getting in the way of me looking at my SYSTEMS,
 

UPMan

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Whey you scroll, you see a list of "S" level objects. For conventional Systems, that "S" means System. But for multisite systems "S" means "Sites". You'll also note that scrolling also allows you to see Search ranges (the third "S").

I think that the issue is that you are using the scroll select to do what you should be (and most users do) accomplishing using SQKs.
 

brusso99

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will only see "Manatee Cnty"


STEVE,

Can you check this.. I uploaded manatee cnty into my scanner and i get manatee cnty (E) and (W) your right why would you want this, its annoying. I dont want it this way.. I just want the SYSTEM not the SITES.. This is the issue i am having that i cant get across to anyone.
 

sjlamb

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can you take a look at broward bso and let me know if you would program all the trunk sites seperate or would you add them all together? i will be creating systems for major cities from this system but i have no idea if i should just add all the sites for each one, which will result in even more of these sites shown as systems on the scroll list?

Broward County Trunking System, Broward County, Florida - Scanner Frequencies


IE
If you mean ONLY the BSO......If it were me; I would arrange that agency something like:

[System] Broward County TRS

[Site 1] Enter All Control Channels [Same Quick Key for ALL 5 Sites]
[Site 2] Enter All Control Channels [Same Quick Key for ALL 5 Sites]
[Site 3] Enter All Control Channels [Same Quick Key for ALL 5 Sites]
[Site 4] Enter All Control Channels [Same Quick Key for ALL 5 Sites]
[Site 5] Enter All Control Channels [Same Quick Key for ALL 5 Sites]

BCSO - Primary [1]
Enter All PrimaryTalkroups

BCSO-Dist. 11 [1]
Enter All Dist. 11 Talkgroups

In this example, pressing [Function, "1"] would turn off ALL BCSO. When turned on, your display will differentiate as to whether you are currently hearing BCSO "Primary" groups or Dist. 11 groups

so forth and so for whatever Broward Groups (Fire & Rescue, EMS/Medics, Beach Patrol, etc) that you want under the "Broward TRS"
 

brusso99

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I think that the issue is that you are using the scroll select to do what you should be (and most users do) accomplishing using SQKs.



Ok ill either remember all the 99 quick keys and what they do, or paste a list on the scanner.. thats a real solution for a 500 dollar unit... seriously I need the select system scroll at least to see what is on the radio, what i need is to get SITES off the LIST!! Can this be done....
 
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sjlamb

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see picture attached

Thanks
I misunderstood you. I thought you meant when I scrolled thru the programming menu.

I would want that because unless I'm listening from home; the East tower may be closer to me than the West tower thus, better reception. When I'm sitting at my desk, I usually have the East site locked out as the West site is a much better signal from my home. Both are transmitting the same comms but, depending on my location, I go with the site that gives the best signal.
 
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