Serious HomePatrol Concerns - Is it really ready for prime time?

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SOFA_KING

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I have been scanning since the early 70's and I always had "top of the line" scanners. I have two great GRE digital scanners now (PRO-106 & PRO-197) and just purchased a HP for my mobile travels around the state and country. I'm excited about it (waiting delivery), but actually a little worried that it may have issues.

I took the liberty of downloading the software in advance of my delivery and did a database update to see what I could expect to hear in my area, and also in areas I know very well around me. Let me tell you, I was shocked to see what needed fixing. Everything from lat & lon being way off (like outside the county), to missing talkgroups that are hot (meaning really good to listen to...and yes, they are in the RR database but NOT IN THE HOMEPATROL DATABASE!), to missing CTCSS/DCS tones on so much stuff (that actually has tones on it)…It will need work to get it right. And what is up with the huge amount of "depreciated" frequencies in the HP scan lineup that have been decommissioned over 20 years ago? Florida Highway Patrol, FDLE and Marine Patrol on low band? (no PL on those either, which means a potential noise lockup) Plus there are multiple entries for the SAME FREQUENCY under the SAME AREA (wasted scan time). It is a total mess, and the amount of cleanup that needs to be done is staggering! Sure, there is a bunch of stuff in there that I had little idea was around me, but it is generally not something I would ever be interested in listening to, however I think it is good to have the 'option' (someone may want to hear it). But I really am concerned that this device will let some people down because the database, and I guess application of it to the HP, has major issues. To the credit of the good people who are supporting this effort, I commend their hard work to promptly handle issues and updates, but the base information needs a whole lot of work. Continued improvement will be a "long term" commitment until it is good enough to serve the application of plug 'n' play scanner users. We have a long way to go!

I have been a provider of good database information for my county and surrounding areas. I'm an advanced snoop and search hound that perfects my scanning lineup as I get to understand system design and usage. I spend many hours investigating frequency usage in various places I visit. My scanner is "tight", and I hear it all without waste. I hate unwanted noise, so I'm always looking to keep the scanner hearing only what is intended by making proper use of CTCSS/DCS tone (and P25) filters when transmitters use them (most do). I'm a bit surprised that some of the solid data I provided RR ended up corrupted in the database and poorly implemented in the HP. But I have already committed to help clean up what I can with what I know about in areas I'm intimate with. I sincerely hope that people who have the equipment and skills to verify accuracy in the RR database help get things right or I think the HomePatrol is at risk of partial (maybe substantial) failure. I guess the RR database is not 100%, and the lat/lon information is really not near 100%, so you get what you get until someone fixes it.

There might be an easier way to fix things if there were slight modifications to firmware and software.
One feature addition that would greatly help users and future users get better performance out of the HP would be instant tone recognition and a STORE key to add it to a channel in the list. Then you need a software function that adds that tone information to the RR database so the info becomes available for all scanner users. Using tones keeps a scanner from unwanted noise and lockups on interference.

Maybe another feature could be a lat/lon correction "update" button in Sentinel, so that when people fix a coverage center, that info can be instantly updated in the RR database.


You know what RR needs to get some of this cleaned up? I have another idea... How about a special modified version of a "top of the line" scanner that runs a special firmware and software package that collects data and allows the user to easily mark and update all things that need fixing in the database. Like a special scanner tool that makes it easy to "clean up" and interface with the RR database for instant corrections. This would accelerate the cleanup process, but it has to be easy to modify and update or it will become too much work. Think about it...with fewer people buying advanced scanners (the people who might help cleanup the database) you will have fewer people contributing needed data. I really believe the advanced scanners should have the HP functionality to begin with, and I also think us advanced users need all the best tools at our disposal to help in the effort to get things right. It would do the scanning community a greater overall service. And for Peat's sake, modify the Sentinel software to allow users to add stuff! Maybe even make a function in it to 'upload' the stuff they add to help cleanup and expand the RR database. There just needs to be a better way to do it than what you have now...a ticket system where someone has to 'key it in'. Let's make this easy and get the tools in the hands of the users to make the database as accurate as it can be. The technology is within reach. We are close to a revolution, but not ‘there’ yet. ;)

Until I actually get my HomePatrol unit, I will be making many notes to submit for correction. I'm excited to get this device, I really am, but I know it will need allot of work. And I really do not think 'fixing' just my unit with my own added corrections in my "favorites" list is the right answer. These corrections need to be available to all users who may venture into my area. Let's get this done right! Help us to help you. :)

Phil
 
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interesting commentary,well thought out and rationally expressed.

should get this in as a review,seems it will definitely give future buyers a
red flag to investigate before dropping 400+...

please post a follow up once you receive the unit and have test driven it..
 

zerg901

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How about if the database owner pays $1 for the first person to submit a confirmed freq or TG with info.

Only in rural areas will there be single submissions. In urban areas, multi people will submit each listing. This should lend credibility to the submissions.

Or - maybe a couple of people can be hired to travel the country confirming freqs. Maybe it would cost $100,000 or $200,000. If you sell 100,000 scanners, the cost is trivial.

Peter Sz
 

SOFA_KING

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interesting commentary,well thought out and rationally expressed.

should get this in as a review,seems it will definitely give future buyers a
red flag to investigate before dropping 400+...

please post a follow up once you receive the unit and have test driven it..

Will do, thanks.

To be fair I really need to see what I can do with the thing. I just hope I can make a dent with it. I'll be reporting back.
 

SOFA_KING

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How about if the database owner pays $1 for the first person to submit a confirmed freq or TG with info.

Only in rural areas will there be single submissions. In urban areas, multi people will submit each listing. This should lend credibility to the submissions.

Or - maybe a couple of people can be hired to travel the country confirming freqs. Maybe it would cost $100,000 or $200,000. If you sell 100,000 scanners, the cost is trivial.

Peter Sz

You know...I though about that...hiring a team to go out and verify all areas of the country starting with areas of low data submission and maybe high priority areas . Just equip them with a nice motor home full of the best toys to get the job done quickly. It could be the Radio Reference Tac Team. :D

I would take that job too, Dave, and love it!. :twisted:
 
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BoxAlarm187

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I'll take that job. :)

I'll drive! :D

In all seriousness, some of the reasons that Sofa King posted make me feel a little bit better about Santa dropping off a 996XT instead of the HP-1. Based on the some of the posts here and the HP1 forums also, it appears that getting the databases corrected (not just expanded) will be a multi-year project. A little work upfront using FreeScan will hopefully save headaches and missed transmissions later on!
 
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SOFA_KING

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I'll drive! :D

In all seriousness, some of the reasons the Sofa King posted make me feel a little bit better about Santa dropping off a 996XT instead of the HP-1. Based on the some of the posts here and the HP1 forums also, it appears that getting the databases corrected (not just expanded) will be a multi-year project. I little work upfront using FreeScan will hopefully save headaches and missed transmissions later on!

Very good point!

I just submitted multiple corrections to the admins that should really help anyone in my county who got one of these. There are so many more I need to send in that I have to make a list, but at least some important crit stuff got sent in. This could be a full time job for more than a few people!
 

KE4ZNR

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Let me tell you, I was shocked to see what needed fixing. Everything from lat & lon being way off (like outside the county), to missing talkgroups that are hot (meaning really good to listen to...and yes, they are in the RR database but NOT IN THE HOMEPATROL DATABASE!), to missing CTCSS/DCS tones on so much stuff (that actually has tones on it)…It will need work to get it right.

Phil,
With all due respect: only way for the database to improve is for everyone to chip in and submit verified accurate info. If you know there are errors in the database or see frequencies no longer used then submit the verified changes and a database admin should make the adjustments. HP Database updates are done weekly (actually Paul has been doing alot of DB Pulls more than once a week) and the corrected database will be updated in the next weeks pull. It is almost a symbiotic process where as the RR.com database improves so does the HP database.

The HP Database is a mirror of the RR database. Paul has said that the only things that don't show up in the HP database are the proprietary systems that can't be monitored (Provoice, Opensky), comms marked as full time encrypted, and comms marked as data only (MOSCAD/SCADA). Why include the above if they can never be monitored? Makes no sense to include those.

The rest of the RR.com (US & Canada) is included in the HP Database. There still might be confusion regarding classification and proper RR.com Service Tagging but the systems are included.

Me thinks you are overthinking the HP-1. :)
The HP-1 was designed for the casual or beginner user who does not know about (and could care less about) terms such as CTCSS/PL/NAC/TGID/3600 CC/9600CC. They just want the radio to work out of the box and to be able to monitor PD/Fire/EMS without having to learn the advanced radio geek theory that you, I and others here know very well. And overwhelming response so far is that it has succeeded very well in doing that.

The HP-1 was (and is) "ready for prime time" and has proven to be a great radio to get people involved with our hobby who would have otherwise given up and walked away because of frustration at having to learn stuff that a Radio System Admin knows.

I respect your opinion and your points are well taken. Hopefully you will take my post here as a constructive response. :)

Happy Holidays to all and Happy Monitoring!
73,
Marshall KE4ZNR
 

KE4ZNR

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Very good point!

I just submitted multiple corrections to the admins that should really help anyone in my county who got one of these. There are so many more I need to send in that I have to make a list, but at least some important crit stuff got sent in. This could be a full time job for more than a few people!

It is a full time volunteer job being a database admin here :)

We call it a "labor of love" job though.

Thanks for taking the time to submit corrections/verifications for your area.

Each and every verified, accurate submission is greatly appreciated and is the backbone of what makes RR.com so great :)

What people forget is that it is not only the HP-1 that relies on the integrity of the RR.com database, but every scanner out there. Using a web import feature on any software from Win500 to Freescan and everything inbetween is useless if the data you are pulling in from RR.com is errant. That is why it is crucial that us RR.com users submit accurate, verified info so that us database admins can keep up with the changes as they occur. Will the RR.com database ever be perfect? Of course not. But we can always strive to be better than yesterday.

One of my personal 2011 New Years Resolutions is to make at least 5 positive changes daily to improve my part of the process: the NC/SC database.
This last year has been a tough balance between work for me and RR.com. I have had to sacrifice some RR.com time to keep up with additional job responsibilities I was given. But 2011 will be my coming back and rockin' and rollin' on RR.com :cool:

So the RR.com can be improved by user submissions/corrections, us database admins can work harder in working those submissions, and in turn every radio will improve from the bottom of the line VHF/UHF scanner picked up at a yard sale to the top of the line 396XT/996XT/HP-1/Pro106.

Happy Monitoring (and Happy Holidays) to all!
Marshall KE4ZNR
 

SOFA_KING

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Phil,
With all due respect: only way for the database to improve is for everyone to chip in and submit verified accurate info. If you know there are errors in the database or see frequencies no longer used then submit the verified changes and a database admin should make the adjustments. HP Database updates are done weekly (actually Paul has been doing alot of DB Pulls more than once a week) and the corrected database will be updated in the next weeks pull. It is almost a symbiotic process where as the RR.com database improves so does the HP database.

Uh oh...Anything that starts with "with all due respect" is off to a bad start, but I'll be objective. Marshall, If you read what I have posted you would know I AM submitting corrected info. And I commended the staff on updating. The problems I see are possible contamination from old data that someone submits, or a total lack of common sense. I mean c'mon...FL State on low band? That is three generations ago..oh, and the high band FHP is gone too (two generations ago). Hey, I'm doing my part and offering a hand (or two).

The HP Database is a mirror of the RR database. Paul has said that the only things that don't show up in the HP database are the proprietary systems that can't be monitored (Provoice, Opensky), comms marked as full time encrypted, and comms marked as data only (MOSCAD/SCADA). Why include the above if they can never be monitored? Makes no sense to include those.

Again, you didn't read what I said. St. Lucie County has digital P25 TG's on the system that are the best listening in the county. I submitted this info. It is not marked ENCRYPTED, as it is not 95% of the time, and even though it is in the RR Database (go look) it is not in the HP data. This was a FAIL, Marshall. Not OpenSky MOSCAD/SCADA PROVOICE ENCRYPTED SCAT or anything else...just not there.

The rest of the RR.com (US & Canada) is included in the HP Database. There still might be confusion regarding classification and proper RR.com Service Tagging but the systems are included.

Agree...tagging is sometimes tough unless you have inside info. It should still be in there, even without a tag. Better to hear it than not. Dupes, sometimes with different tags, are common from what I have seen. Those need to be weeded out. Far too many and ambiguous, to say the least.

Me thinks you are overthinking the HP-1. :)
The HP-1 was designed for the casual or beginner user who does not know about (and could care less about) terms such as CTCSS/PL/NAC/TGID/3600 CC/9600CC. They just want the radio to work out of the box and to be able to monitor PD/Fire/EMS without having to learn the advanced radio geek theory that you, I and others here know very well. And overwhelming response so far is that it has succeeded very well in doing that.

I could not agree with this at all. Never do a job half-@$$ed. Either do it right or go home. Not all the "good" stuff is in there, and lat/lons are all messed up, sooooo no "out of the box" here in my area...yet. And do you know how many times a scanner will lock up on some intermod trash, cable leakage, computer generated trash, appliance trash or just power line noise or something like that when you are scanning CSQ? Heck, even cars on the highway are radiating all sorts of RF that locks up a scanner. I once took a trip to NY and tried to scan my fed stuff all CSQ to see what I might be missing under the PL/NAC. Holy shishkabob! Talk about overuse of the lockout button. I about pushed it into the radio...for good! How do you think the average HP listener will feel about the product when he/she gets this noise and trash locking up the scanner? You bet your life they will care...when it doesn't serve their needs, by being a locked up noise maker, they'll care! The PL/DPL is there. Just fix it and use it!

The HP-1 was (and is) "ready for prime time" and has proven to be a great radio to get people involved with our hobby who would have otherwise given up and walked away because of frustration at having to learn stuff that a Radio System Admin knows.

I do not agree. I hope some day it is, but by creating such a device you have just given the possible "I'll go on RR and get some help from the guys so I can LEARN how to" guy the easy way out. Future scanner buffs will be appliance operators and nothing more. They won't learn a d@mn thing, because you made it too easy. Great if you want to sell scanners and make money, but not good for the hobby. And for a "beginner user" scanner this thing is EXPENSIVE. Sure, a novice user who doesn't know what he/she is missing will not know what he/she is missing. They are happy to get just about anything, but from what I have seen, people in my area will not be getting much unless you make the updates I sent in. How many other areas are just as bad? And what is with all those 0.0000 lat/lon entries? Like I said...NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME. I will do what I can do to help. I want to see it work right and be all it can be...not some "maybe I'll get something useful between all the useless noise" scanner. It does have potential IF you fix the database ASAP. Perhaps a dedicated RR Tac Team (RRTT...I like that) is needed. As far as satisfied customers, that remains to be seen. This thing could flop if it is that flawed. I know it is a database issue, but the end user doesn't care what the issue is. It either works or not.

I respect your opinion and your points are well taken. Hopefully you will take my post here as a constructive response. :)

Well I do, Marshall, but my thread was also meant to be constructive. Like I said, I want it to work. If it is going at be a $500 beginner scanner that will never live up to it's true potential, I might as well return it when it gets here. I just can't believe someone would release the device with such gross (fixable) errors in it. I wish I could be everywhere to get the data in shape, but I have a real paying job that takes priority. I do have a ton of drive and travel time, so I can help some, but it needs much more then what geeks (like me) on this board can do. You really have to go county by county and check everything active or not. And you have to get those lat/lons centered and set for the right distance so you're not either missing stuff in your area or hearing too much stuff outside your area. Those are the reviews I read over and over...not right. Just think...if it was really cleaned up, the HP would be one heck of a machine! It could use some improvements, that even novices could make use of, to make cleanup easier. That is what I was trying to suggest. Give 'em some tools. It should be possible.

Happy Holidays to all and Happy Monitoring!
73,
Marshall KE4ZNR

Thank you. Likewise...have a happy!

Just a final note...I know it takes time and effort to get this stuff right. And it is an ever changing radio radio world we live in. Heck...my Fed stuff is always changing, and I have to search almost full time to keep track of the changes. That stuff is not FCC licensed and the daa from IRAC is off limits, so it is a bit harder. The public and private FCC stuff should be much easier. I think you needed county by county verification research done before releasing the HP. Too late, I guess, but at least you can provide people a way to add and change stuff in Sentinel. You should not have to get 3rd party software to do that. Just my $0.03.

Peace! :)
 
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wise871

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Since I receiving my HomePatrol I have personally submitted over 80+ submissions in the last two months. Most of them were lat and long updates for the entire lower half of Alabama, the entire Florida Panhandle from Pensacola to Tallahassee and areas of Georgia from I-85 up to Atlanta. I did all this for two reasons. One the database was missing this information which resulted in the HP-1 not performing at its best potential. Secondly I did it so other users who pass through the areas I have updated will have a more pleasant experience with any GPS capable scanner. Having the HP-1 has giving me a better understanding on what to look for to ensure the data, descriptions, lats/longs , etc are accurate before I submit my information. Like many of us I always used the Radio Reference as a starting point. Then I usually adjust, rename, etc the information to my personal preference. If you are unhappy with the way SE Florida looks, then do what I did and submit updated information. I’ve had good luck working with the admins for my area and they update my submissions pretty quickly.
 

KE4ZNR

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Since I am being accused of not reading the thread (which is untrue but whatever)...help me out....I need some clarification from you cause somethings ain't adding up. You say the following:

Again, you didn't read what I said. St. Lucie County has digital P25 TG's on the system that are the best listening in the county. I submitted this info. It is not marked ENCRYPTED, as it is not 95% of the time, and even though it is in the RR Database (go look) it is not in the HP data. This was a FAIL, Marshall. Not OpenSky MOSCAD/SCADA PROVOICE ENCRYPTED SCAT or anything else...just not there.

What system would these talkgroups be under? So far I have no idea of which system you are talking about. Not living in the area I have to guess. I see 2 possible systems in the St Lucie area: This "St Lucie Public Safety" Moto type 2 system and of course SLERS. I am gonna assume we can rule out SLERS due to the fact it is EDACS. So again assuming we are talking about the 1st St Lucie Public Safety Moto system every talkgroup that is in the RR.com database shows up in my version of Sentinel:
STLucieFL1.jpg



The system shows up just fine in Sentinel and on My HomePatrol and I am a few states away in NC.

I could not agree with this at all. Never do a job half-@$$ed. Either do it right or go home. Not all the "good" stuff is in there, and lat/lons are all messed up, sooooo no "out of the box" here in my area...yet. And do you know how many times a scanner will lock up on some intermod trash, cable leakage, computer generated trash, appliance trash or just power line noise or something like that when you are scanning CSQ? Heck, even cars on the highway are radiating all sorts of RF that locks up a scanner. I once took a trip to NY and tried to scan my fed stuff all CSQ to see what I might be missing under the PL/NAC. Holy shishkabob! Talk about overuse of the lockout button. I about pushed it into the radio...for good! How do you think the average HP listener will feel about the product when he/she gets this noise and trash locking up the scanner? You bet your life they will care...when it doesn't serve their needs, by being a locked up noise maker, they'll care! The PL/DPL is there. Just fix it and use it!

No one half assed anything. :roll:
Quite a diatribe above but again your issues are with the RR.com database and not with the HP-1 specifically. If the wrong CTCSS/PL tone is listed in the RR.com database and I use Win500 and the web import feature to program a Pro106 (which I have done many times) then the Pro106 will have faulty programming. That does not mean that the Pro106 is at fault, it means the RR.com database needs to be corrected. That was my main point in my initial post: For ANY radio (GRE or Uniden) to correctly use the web import feature the info has to be correct in the database.
That is our responsibility as database admins.
Oh and the response so far from the "average HP user" has been positive and not the "RF Intermod Apocalypse" you somehow think everyone has had.

I do not agree. I hope some day it is, but by creating such a device you have just given the possible "I'll go on RR and get some help from the guys so I can LEARN how to" guy the easy way out. Future scanner buffs will be appliance operators and nothing more. They won't learn a d@mn thing, because you made it too easy. Great if you want to sell scanners and make money, but not good for the hobby.

People were saying the same thing about Ham Radio when CW was dropped but the hobby has survived and adapted. I sure as hell want the Monitoring hobby to survive and grow and I hope you do too. But we can't expect the "Joes" of the world to be as rabid about the hobby starting out as we are. We have to make the hobby more accessible to the beginner for it to survive long term. On average I meet up with 3-4 people here in Central NC each week to help them program a Pro 106 or a BCD396XT/BCD996XT. What do I hear time and time again? "All I want to do is listen to Police/FD/EMS and I don't understand programming this thing". I have taken the HP-1 to many of my consulting sessions and every time I hear the same thing: "I wish I would have seen this before I bought the Pro106 (or BCD396XT/BCD996XT)". Fear not, there will be those (a majority hopefully) that after getting started will move up to more advanced radios but you gotta start simple or else people will get frustrated and leave the hobby and our hobby will not survive without new folks getting involved.

Just some of my initial thoughts to your replies.
I am sure I will have others but my dog wants to go out in the snow and dammit that means I have to just out the heavy jackets and boots again :D

BTW: For the record my HP-1 has been doing great during "the NC Blizzard of 2010" :D

Happy Monitoring (and Happy HPing)
Marshall KE4ZNR
 

SOFA_KING

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Thank you for all your effort. I will appreciate the Panhandle updates! :)

I have started submitting already, and I think I'm up to 10 or so now. I'm working on some conventional stuff in my county as I type. I need to confirm a few PL changes first. I did the lats & lons already for the county and city borders in my county.

Questions:

Did you calculate the mid point in each county and measure the max distance to each corner?

Did you do city/town boundaries too?

Did you do any PL/DPL additions or corrections?

I am curious how others are handling this.

Phil
 

KE4ZNR

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Dan:
On behalf of myself (and I am sure all RR.com database admins) Thank you for your time and effort in helping make sure the RR.com database is as accurate as possible for the many areas you have been in. :)
Your efforts have not gone unnoticed.
Happy Monitoring and Happy Holidays!
Marshall KE4ZNR


Since I receiving my HomePatrol I have personally submitted over 80+ submissions in the last two months. Most of them were lat and long updates for the entire lower half of Alabama, the entire Florida Panhandle from Pensacola to Tallahassee and areas of Georgia from I-85 up to Atlanta. I did all this for two reasons. One the database was missing this information which resulted in the HP-1 not performing at its best potential. Secondly I did it so other users who pass through the areas I have updated will have a more pleasant experience with any GPS capable scanner. Having the HP-1 has giving me a better understanding on what to look for to ensure the data, descriptions, lats/longs , etc are accurate before I submit my information. Like many of us I always used the Radio Reference as a starting point. Then I usually adjust, rename, etc the information to my personal preference. If you are unhappy with the way SE Florida looks, then do what I did and submit updated information. I’ve had good luck working with the admins for my area and they update my submissions pretty quickly.
 

KE4ZNR

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Thank you for all your effort. I will appreciate the Panhandle updates! :)

I have started submitting already, and I think I'm up to 10 or so now. I'm working on some conventional stuff in my county as I type. I need to confirm a few PL changes first. I did the lats & lons already for the county and city borders in my county.

Questions:

Did you calculate the mid point in each county and measure the max distance to each corner?

Did you do city/town boundaries too?

Did you do any PL/DPL additions or corrections?

I am curious how others are handling this.

Phil

Phil:
Hopefully this will help as far as the Lat/Long questions:
How it Works: Location, Location, Location
Thanks!
Marshall KE4ZNR
 

wise871

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Questions:

1 Did you calculate the mid point in each county and measure the max distance to each corner?

2 Did you do city/town boundaries too?

3 Did you do any PL/DPL additions or corrections?

Phil

1. What I use is Microsoft Streets and Trips 2009. What I do is plot the 4 furthest corners of the county or city. Not all areas are square so I pick those points so my radius will encircle those points. Once I lay out my radius I have my center point. Again it may not look perfectly center in the county or city but this is due to them not being perfectly square. You will find some areas have a huge radius due to shape.
If you look at the photo I attached this is of Jackson County Florida. What I did was use hat pins to plot the furthest point of the county line. Then I made my radius to encircle those pins. You will also see I did the cities within the counties. You will also notice the circle covers some of Georgia and other Florida counties. This is due to the shape of the county once again and this is normal. If I made my radius smaller so not to stretch in those areas, then I would not be able to monitor Jackson County when I entered it until I was closer to the center. Again the center point is going to be based your radius.

Streets and Trips is just one tool anyone can use. Other map programs should give you the same capabilities. I also use this website Click for a Zip Code Boundary Map. along with Google Maps and Bing.

2. Yes

3. Yes
 
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UPMan

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Again, you didn't read what I said. St. Lucie County has digital P25 TG's on the system that are the best listening in the county. I submitted this info.

I suspect that the channels referred to here are the ones marked in RRDB with a service type of "Other" which is really synonymous with "Unknown." Once the channels are properly tagged as to use, they will come into HPDB.
 

SOFA_KING

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Location
SE Florida
Since I am being accused of not reading the thread (which is untrue but whatever)...help me out....I need some clarification from you cause somethings ain't adding up. You say the following:



What system would these talkgroups be under? So far I have no idea of which system you are talking about. Not living in the area I have to guess. I see 2 possible systems in the St Lucie area: This "St Lucie Public Safety" Moto type 2 system and of course SLERS. I am gonna assume we can rule out SLERS due to the fact it is EDACS. So again assuming we are talking about the 1st St Lucie Public Safety Moto system every talkgroup that is in the RR.com database shows up in my version of Sentinel:
STLucieFL1.jpg



The system shows up just fine in Sentinel and on My HomePatrol and I am a few states away in NC.



No one half assed anything. :roll:
Quite a diatribe above but again your issues are with the RR.com database and not with the HP-1 specifically. If the wrong CTCSS/PL tone is listed in the RR.com database and I use Win500 and the web import feature to program a Pro106 (which I have done many times) then the Pro106 will have faulty programming. That does not mean that the Pro106 is at fault, it means the RR.com database needs to be corrected. That was my main point in my initial post: For ANY radio (GRE or Uniden) to correctly use the web import feature the info has to be correct in the database.
That is our responsibility as database admins.
Oh and the response so far from the "average HP user" has been positive and not the "RF Intermod Apocalypse" you somehow think everyone has had.



People were saying the same thing about Ham Radio when CW was dropped but the hobby has survived and adapted. I sure as hell want the Monitoring hobby to survive and grow and I hope you do too. But we can't expect the "Joes" of the world to be as rabid about the hobby starting out as we are. We have to make the hobby more accessible to the beginner for it to survive long term. On average I meet up with 3-4 people here in Central NC each week to help them program a Pro 106 or a BCD396XT/BCD996XT. What do I hear time and time again? "All I want to do is listen to Police/FD/EMS and I don't understand programming this thing". I have taken the HP-1 to many of my consulting sessions and every time I hear the same thing: "I wish I would have seen this before I bought the Pro106 (or BCD396XT/BCD996XT)". Fear not, there will be those (a majority hopefully) that after getting started will move up to more advanced radios but you gotta start simple or else people will get frustrated and leave the hobby and our hobby will not survive without new folks getting involved.

Just some of my initial thoughts to your replies.
I am sure I will have others but my dog wants to go out in the snow and dammit that means I have to just out the heavy jackets and boots again :D

BTW: For the record my HP-1 has been doing great during "the NC Blizzard of 2010" :D

Happy Monitoring (and Happy HPing)
Marshall KE4ZNR

That page shows nothing about what I was saying. That is the wrong section of the HP database anyway. Look at the talkgroups. Then look in the RR database at the talkgroups. All the digital stuff is there at RR, but not at all in the HP Sentinel. (that is what I was saying about you not reading what I said...maybe not understanding is the real issue). The digital TG's start at 32784 and go up to 35280, or so. I was never a fan of how my data was presented, but I had nothing to do with that. I would have put them in each department instead as a seperate group of digital stuff. I submitted the corrections and they should be straight soon (I hope).

No diatribe here. Please don't be condescending. And again, maybe you didn't understand what I said, but if you read back and look you will see I fault the RR data, not the HP. What I said is that until the data is right, the product should have been held back. Sorry if that rubs anyone the wrong way. I admire quality innovation, not half-baked ideas. I see the potential in the device, and again I hope it can work once the DB info is cleaned up. However, I'm not a fan of no code, either. There is no excuse for the lazy. And yes, the bands have gone to the dogs. It is nothing more than glorified CB anymore. Anyone who has been around can see the difference. Sad, truly sad. No effort equals no gain.

BTW- Those lat and lons are not very good. This is what I calculate (pic below). The main "EAST" system is in the center (really three simulcast sites in three areas of the county) with 19 mile range to each corner, The "WEST" IR tower covers SR 70 and CR 68 out west (not much traffic at all...the main system covers the county well enough, but it is there...sort of a waste...for portable coverage I guess) say 7 miles or so. The Port St. Lucie TG lat/lons are down in the SE with 8 mile range, and the Ft. Pierce up NE at 5 miles. All have some overlap, but I tried to keep it tight as possible for someone who really wants to control efficient channel usage. Oh...and the nuke plant system out on the barrier island is something you can hear over 30 miles away. You want to know when that place has a problem. I submitted a ton of info on that system too. I was glad to see it in Sentinel. A new improved TG list and CC list was just submitted with the actual lat/lon, as well.

slcsitecenters.jpg



I'm here to help too. I imagine you area (in the snow) is in good shape with you working on it. Every area needs someone to take care of it. That is also what I was saying.
 

SOFA_KING

Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
1,581
Location
SE Florida
1. What I use is Microsoft Streets and Trips 2009. What I do is plot the 4 furthest corners of the county or city. Not all areas are square so I pick those points so my radius will encircle those points. Once I lay out my radius I have my center point. Again it may not look perfectly center in the county or city but this is due to them not being perfectly square. You will find some areas have a huge radius due to shape.
If you look at the photo I attached this is of Jackson County Florida. What I did was use hat pins to plot the furthest point of the county line. Then I made my radius to encircle those pins. You will also see I did the cities within the counties. You will also notice the circle covers some of Georgia and other Florida counties. This is due to the shape of the county once again and this is normal. If I made my radius smaller so not to stretch in those areas, then I would not be able to monitor Jackson County when I entered it until I was closer to the center. Again the center point is going to be based your radius.

Streets and Trips is just one tool anyone can use. Other map programs should give you the same capabilities. I also use this website Click for a Zip Code Boundary Map. along with Google Maps and Bing.

2. Yes

3. Yes

Thanks, Dan! I use Street Atlas USA. I love that program. My lines on my pic are measurement points. I could have cleaned them up, but I did this just hours ago. I try and center the jurisdiction areas, and not worry about the transmitter tower sites. Of course no area is a perfect circle, so there will be some extension beyond the city/county limits. Just as long as the minimum coverage is covered.
 
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