Shelton FD radios

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scollier

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Lauretti doesn't want to spend the money! That's the thing. Doesn't want to raise taxes. I guess they're moving forward with the UHF plan and people I talk to say "we'll see" Chris Jones wants this big 1 mil system. Of course, he's trying everything to get in as mayor.

Just have to wait and see what happens.

Leave the radio system alone. Don't give them too many good ideas like Monroe got dupped into. LOL.

You wanna pay 4800/yr taxes and have a cheaper radio system. Or do you wanna do it the Chris Jones way and pay 9000+/yr taxes and have a million dollar digital enc citywide system? If he gets in that's what your going to get.

Alls they need to do is put a 2 site system in: One downtown and one out here in Huntington and buy basic analog UHF Mobiles for the truck and x portables to cover whatever they already have.

Basically, it all comes down to $$$$$$. And unfortunately, the voters are more concered about their wallets than the saftey of their public servents.

I wouldn't worry too much about it for now.

As for EMS, they're a pvt co, so they can afford to buy what they want.

And as for what Herbst tried to do in Trumbull with the magnet school, don't expect malloy to chip in.

shawn
 

izzyj4

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Shawn,

If Shelton looks to what Derby and Echo Ambulance did for their UHF they should be okay for the most part. I know the DFD's transmitter is over at Waterview Drive and pretty much also cover's Shelton's area. Hopefully they'll get something that works.

As for politics, well its the Valley, all I have to say on that.
 

APX7500X2

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Lauretti doesn't want to spend the money! That's the thing. Doesn't want to raise taxes. I guess they're moving forward with the UHF plan and people I talk to say "we'll see" Chris Jones wants this big 1 mil system. Of course, he's trying everything to get in as mayor.

Just have to wait and see what happens.

Leave the radio system alone. Don't give them too many good ideas like Monroe got dupped into. LOL.

You wanna pay 4800/yr taxes and have a cheaper radio system. Or do you wanna do it the Chris Jones way and pay 9000+/yr taxes and have a million dollar digital enc citywide system? If he gets in that's what your going to get.

Alls they need to do is put a 2 site system in: One downtown and one out here in Huntington and buy basic analog UHF Mobiles for the truck and x portables to cover whatever they already have.

Basically, it all comes down to $$$$$$. And unfortunately, the voters are more concered about their wallets than the saftey of their public servents


I don't know where you get your info but try another place!

Monroe has a great system with 3 site simulcast great portable coverage all new mobile and portable radios. The radios are all ready for upgrades, they have 5 fire ground channels and i could go on and on.
Monroe’s and Bridgeport’s systems should be what everyone looks at for upgrades.
Both well designed and thought out and ready for the future
Shelton’s Base radios were replaced with new ones about 5 years ago. They got 30 or 40 new portables over the last few years. All the old PAC-RT repeaters were replaced 5 years ago. So they have old truck radios and no repeater system so they can hear each other across town, and the phone lines keep failing. So in all they need 1 repeater like EMS that covers the town on mobiles, 30 more portables, new truck radios and use simplex fire ground on scene

Departments, Cities and towns should all have radio replacement funds that are added to each year.
It should be a 12-16 year cycle for new radios for any department. If you put money away for 12-16 years when it comes time you can just do it and get on with saving lives
 

jim202

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Having been involved with public safety radio systems for well over 45 years now, it is not uncommon to hear stories like this. Trying to take a neutral stand and not point the finger in any directions, I do have to wonder why everyone feels that the bad people are the city management.

You know there is the possibility that the radio shop is partly to blame here. It makes me wonder if the real issue is the way the radio equipment is being maintained. If I read between the lines here and figure that the radios being used as mobiles are CDM models, those are not really that old compared to other radio models that are still in service. I personally still like the Syntor X9000 radios that were made many years before the CDM was even dreamed about. They are still working fine and put out 100 watts all day long.

If your trying to point the finger at bad phone lines between the dispatch center, then get with the phone company and get them to make them more reliable. If your getting push back from the phone company, then escalate it to the state and get the department of Public Utilities Commission or what ever title they have in CT to get on the phone company's case.

Can't make much of a call on the dispatch equipment as no one has provided any details of what is being used, unless I missed it in the many postings here. If it is an Obacom system, then I have to support the replacement of the consoles. That company is no longer functional and parts are not available. Again there are a number of good console vendors out there. Hope there was a bid done on the consoles.

No one has made any comments that I have seen as to what flavor the base radios are. Again I have to kind of ask just what type of maintenance these base radios have received over the course of time. It is real easy for a radio shop to ignore them and just say "These radios are too old to fix". This may be the case, as some models have been dropped from support by the companies that made them.

As for low band coverage, unless you have a dead receiver or bad antenna, you really have to work hard not to have decent coverage. My next choice would be a VHF system. It provides great coverage, decent sized antennas on portables and penetrates well into most buildings.

There are a multitude of companies that have VHF and UHF radio equipment today. If the public safety agencies are not going out for bids on this equipment, then shame on them. First major point to stand up on here is to not let the radio shop write the specs for the radio equipment. You will end up with only that brand radio equipment being able to fit the specs. Hope they at least have someone knowledgeable on radios, that is not involved with the purchase, to review what the radio vendors are going to provide.
 
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radioman2001

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Here is a best case scenario for this department, which I have no ties to, and don't even listen to. Keep the Low Band for page outs, install a UHF repeater or 2 (with voting if there is a coverage problem) for mobile and portable command operations, have a minimum of 3 fire ground frequencies that are not on any repeater. If the department has 40 pieces of apparatus and administrative vehicles, that's 25k for mobiles, maybe 80 portables that's 40K, repeaters are 10K each installed (20K max), consoles in dispatch unknown cost, maybe could use existing, or would need new. Phone lines, that's a big one ,costly, and recurring, I would replace with VOIP lines, or you could go with unlicensed microwave for about 4K a hop or licensed 4.9ghz for about 5K. Licensing costs maybe at the most 5K, and I get a grand total of around 100K, so I still don't get the 2 million cost?
You don't need APX , XTL or XTS radios. 99% of the Departments is my county (Dutchess County New York ) use Motorola Pro series, ie CDM, HT or even Vertex and Kenwood radios. The difference is XTL $2,500.00 for an analog 40 watt UHF vs less than $500.00 for a CDM or Kenwood. The prices I quote are not state contract, I find I do better just dealing direct.
My agency just bought 500 HT-1250 radios for $390.00 ea, and plan to buy another 500 soon.They work just as good as a XTS but at 1/5 the cost.
 

902

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You don't need APX , XTL or XTS radios. 99% of the Departments is my county (Dutchess County New York ) use Motorola Pro series, ie CDM, HT or even Vertex and Kenwood radios. The difference is XTL $2,500.00 for an analog 40 watt UHF vs less than $500.00 for a CDM or Kenwood. The prices I quote are not state contract, I find I do better just dealing direct.
My agency just bought 500 HT-1250 radios for $390.00 ea, and plan to buy another 500 soon.They work just as good as a XTS but at 1/5 the cost.
Absolutely. If an agency has no plan to do P25 digital, there is no benefit in buying a more expensive "digital capable" radio. CDM, Kenwood, and Vertex work to the same specifications as an XTS programmed in analog-only operation (and Kenwood and Vertex have P25 radios for much less cost, too).

The only snag I can possibly see is that some grant guidance requires buying P25 radios - for "interoperability". But a VHF P25 radio and a UHF P25 radio have zero interoperability if they don't have hardware or infrastructure behind them.

4.9 GHz licenses are "free" if an agency logs into ULS and does it themselves. Locations that are permanent need to be listed, and the frequencies/emissions used need to be broken out, but they don't need to be coordinated.
 

radioman2001

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I was speaking about any UHF frequency co-ordination, and 4.9 licensing may be free, but you have to go through coordination, that's the cost. NYPD has most of the 4.9 locked up for 100 mi around NYC, you may actually have to challenge them to prove construction and use, I know we have been looking at getting rid of the last dozen or so phone lines, I would prefer just using the 900 band.
As far as p-25 compatibility and fed funding, if the system costs 100k without help, why would you buy a 2.1 mil system and only get 90% funded?
 
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jim202

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Maybe someone should start looking at the type of radio service work that sounds like it isn't being done. There is no way that all these problems should be happening as frequently as they are with radio techs working on the system.

Maybe everyone is looking in the wrong direction here. It might be time to start looking at just what isn't being done to keep the radios on the air.

This wouldn't be the first time a radio shop has pulled the wool over an agency's head with not doing any repair work on radios to make it look like the equipment is all junk. Their goal is to sell them some top prime shinny new radios right out of the most expensive box they can supply. You might even find that billing an agency for work not done could be a crime.

Maybe the mayor should bring in another radio shop or a good consultant for a look see just what the condition of the radio equipment really is. Never hurts to get a second opinion.

Don't get me wrong here on where I stand. I have some 35 plus years in the fire service and hate to see an agency taken for a ride. Been there, done it, before anyone starts a flame here. I have spent some 45 plus years doing service work on public safety and federal radio systems. Have installed antenna systems, climbed towers, put in grounding systems and worked on generators. Worked for a few engineering and consulting firms on radio systems. Have engineered some cellular system radio sites and done microwave path work and repairs. Seen just about all the tricks that some of the less ethical radio shops have done over the years. This radio system problem just has a funny smell to it.
 

radioman2001

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Seen that too, my own department 15 years ago was tricked into buying new radios instead of a simple firmware upgrade, (BTW I told them that and they canceled the sale) and just last year again a different radio shop tried to tell my department the radios they have are no longer available so they could sell them MOTOTRBO crap. I stopped that one too with a letter from Motorola, BTW that was our departments last deal with any Motorola product, we now are purchasing Kenwood's. I happen to like Motorola products, but for the last 35 years I have seen Motorola (the company COM-MSS shops, and the MSS shops) do some really stupid things that border on criminal.
 

902

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I was speaking about any UHF frequency co-ordination, and 4.9 licensing may be free, but you have to go through coordination, that's the cost. NYPD has most of the 4.9 locked up for 100 mi around NYC, you may actually have to challenge them to prove construction and use, I know we have been looking at getting rid of the last dozen or so phone lines, I would prefer just using the 900 band.
As far as p-25 compatibility and fed funding, if the system costs 100k without help, why would you buy a 2.1 mil system and only get 90% funded?
How another jurisdiction uses 4.9 really doesn't matter. Any eligible jurisdiction can and will get a 4.9 GHz license for their public safety operations if they apply through ULS. The FCC places the onus on the agencies for cooperating in shared spectrum use. Agencies can only use the resource within their own jurisdictional boundary, but there are so many overlapping boundaries, that any attempt to coordinate is purely situational. Of the 7 20 Meg "channels" in the 50 MHz available in 4.9, there really are only 2 "channels" that have no overlap with any of the other channels (or 3 15 Meg, 5 10 Meg, 10 5 Meg, or 10 1 Meg... and all of these share with the higher occupied bandwidths). The big contention comes in between one group who wants to deploy hot spots and another who wants to use the band for operational fixed. Seems some vocal public safety communications "leaders" seem to put priority on hot spot use, while many of us (myself included) need the reliable connectivity, and constant throughput and delay rates, without using ISM bands, or paying for leased data circuits or traditional waveguide microwave systems.

UHF coordination is the difficult thing. 453 MHz only has 61 high power channels, and in an area where there is heavy use, coordinations always come down to recommending an acceptable level of interference and then gaining the concurrence of the incumbents to tolerate that interference. There's nothing clear unless new spectrum is opened (and that's not likely). The coordinator makes the decision of who might be able to tolerate what degree of interference, but that's always limited by proposed use that seems to want to use their resources well beyond their jurisdictional boundaries and daily operating areas. Shelton's lucky, the frequency's already licensed. Now, they're up against the clock to build out.

I can't answer your last question. That gap doesn't make sense to me, unless they're going to use it for some kind of brick and mortar, land acquisition, or physical plant expense.

I've been in the business just over 30 years (climbed into the back of an ambulance as a volunteer in 1980 and was apprenticing at a two-way shop not soon after). I've seen manufacturers, manufacturer's reps, independent shops, and consultants skirt ethics and end run/discredit knowledgeable people within organizations to make a quick buck. Several colleagues and I have been the victim of the latter at one time or another. Once they get their foot in the door, they go hog wild with expenses that lead an agency down the road to budget overruns and sole source procurements because of imbedded proprietary elements, or compensating for poor or hidden design issues. These last 20 years, where family-led corporations succumbed to globalization and diversification beyond their core business have made their tactics and influence attempts nastier. :mad:

And, then, there are some groups that manufacture alternate realities. I just left a meeting about an hour ago where this gem was spoken: "Some agencies can't afford the conversion from analog to digital." Why would they need to convert in the first place? Makes as much sense as the mandate to move everyone to 800 MHz (this falacy was made real when it was proposed as part of HR607, BTW).

It ain't gonna get better. I think the best thing an agency can do is invest in their own people by getting them up to speed in recognizing their needs versus available and emerging technologies. In other words, know your needs and get the things that meet them.

If you don't know what you want, someone will tell you (and then take you for a ride doing it... predation has become an acceptable business strategy). Who knows, agencies might start using cellular telephone technology for dispatch (hey - wait - the braintrust in the various organizations want to do that...). I sure hope I get 4 bars into the network if I need help. Can you hear me now?
 

radioman2001

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Well it is fortunate they already have a UHF license, but that doesn't mean they can plop it down wherever they want. If they can't cover the whole town from one site, they are going to have to go through co-ordination again for another or more sites. As far as UHF there is a push going on to use the TV channels 14-22. I tried for over 5 years to get them for my FD, now I hear (in the last few years) someone in the business band successfully used a Wayne New Jersey FD (TV-17) licensing as precedent to get UHF-T as far north as Mt Beacon, 70 mi from NYC. You are going to pay for them, so why not get ones that are co-channel free.
 

izzyj4

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The fire department did a study with the UHF system because EMS already operates a UHF system and if I remember correctly the EMS system covers 98.9% of the town. EMS also has operated their UHF system for over 5 years now without any major problems if memory serves me well. Also a the neighboring town across the Housatonic River has their main transmitter in Shelton due to the fact how that particular town is shaped and has full coverage off the repeater in their town and also for the entire area (including voting receivers throughout its town obviously.)

They have the frequencies allocated to them already for a about a year or two, the studies are done, now its just to get over the politics.
 

APX7500X2

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Maybe someone should start looking at the type of radio service work that sounds like it isn't being done. There is no way that all these problems should be happening as frequently as they are with radio techs working on the system.

Maybe everyone is looking in the wrong direction here. It might be time to start looking at just what isn't being done to keep the radios on the air.

This wouldn't be the first time a radio shop has pulled the wool over an agency's head with not doing any repair work on radios to make it look like the equipment is all junk. Their goal is to sell them some top prime shinny new radios right out of the most expensive box they can supply. You might even find that billing an agency for work not done could be a crime.

Maybe the mayor should bring in another radio shop or a good consultant for a look see just what the condition of the radio equipment really is. Never hurts to get a second opinion.

ALL Of this is a mayor race and a power play, now your helping spread misinformation also. People in town have printed your comments and now are using them to make more problems, Nice Job helping screw things up from a thousand miles away, but im sure nothing is your fault and your just trying to help.
The radio shop they use bends over backwards for them 24/7/365
 

zerg901

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No need for ANYONE to get personal in this discussion - no need at all
 

Firebuff66

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No need for ANYONE to get personal in this discussion - no need at all

Yes I agree. Jim202 should not have opened the box by atacking the 40 people who work at the radio shop they use.

Closing this would be the best thing to do before the slander gets worse
 
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