Shooting in FL. school. Possibly 20-50 injured!

Status
Not open for further replies.

blantonl

Founder and CEO
Staff member
Joined
Dec 9, 2000
Messages
9,435
Location
San Antonio, TX
It appears Broward was having radio problems on the system that started right before the shooting. Bad timing....
 

cpetraglia

Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Messages
818
Location
Fairfax, VA
This is the 12th school shooting since Jan. 1st. Where are the metal detectors? This is the type of thing the infrastructure money needs to go to.

Why do we keep letting this happen in America?
 
Last edited:

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
11,733
Location
SNCZCA01DS0
This is the 12th school shooting since Jan. 1st. Where are the metal detectors? This is the type of thing the infrastructure money needs to go to.

Why do we keep letting this happen in America?
Because, like so many subjects, we're not allowed to have open discussions. No one wants to pay the price for what it takes to make schools safer. We're not allowed to discuss guns. We're not allowed to talk about mental health.

Almost everyone has what they think is the answer. Yet no one will agree to have an open discussion about it without name calling.

Until things change, this is going to keep happening. Each time it happens, we get more and more numb to it.

And I have a 12 year old son in middle school. Each time this happens it scares the crap out of us.
 

Mark

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 14, 2001
Messages
5,193
Location
Northeast Maryland
A large school like this totally unprotected? No security? No police?
What are they thinking down there in this day and age? The perp even manages to get away for a while and luckily caught.
Lots of hard questions for the folks running things in that area..
 

iMONITOR

Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
7,204
Location
MACOMB, MI.
A large school like this totally unprotected? No security? No police?
I'm not positive but I think they mentioned today on either Fox or CNN that there was two police vehicles at the school at all times, and I think they had a crew of two per vehicle.

They also said there were about 3,000 students and it was one of the largest schools in the area. That's like a small city!

My heart goes out to the families, friends and loved ones affected by this horrific act.
 

iMONITOR

Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
7,204
Location
MACOMB, MI.
Lets for a minute if we can, take guns out of the equation. There are dozens of other ways for someone to accomplish their evil goals without guns. Instead look at the kinds of people that carry out these attacks.

What I see most of them having in common is they don't know how to handle disappointment, criticism, rejection, peer pressure, and failure. Misguided society and well meaning parents have created spoiled, inept, helpless, mentally unbalanced, over medicated social misfits. As long as everything goes their way, they get their new iPhones every year, aren't required to work, or even help out at home, they're fine! Tell them 'NO', tell them they can't have something, they need to make something of themselves, get a job, grow up, and god forbid act responsible and be held accountable all Hell breaks lose!
 

APX8000

Active Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2004
Messages
3,227
Location
AES-256 secured
First, my thoughts and prayers go out to all the victims and their families. I’d also like to commend the quick response by law enforcement and fire rescue and give thanks to them as well as the dispatchers who are the unseen hero’s. They all did a great job and they do a thankless job.

I’d like to respond to a few posts here. Yes, there are School Resource Officers assigned to the school and you will normally see two marked units at the school. It is a very large school with over 3,000 students covering Parkland and parts of Coral Springs.

They did experience radio problems around the time of the shooting. But they quickly subsided and other than the usual bonks from everyone transmitting at once, comms were pretty damn good. I was actively monitoring the incident and the information was flowing good in both directions. I had previously reviewed the audio and Unitrunker logs from the shooting at FLL and the radio denials were similar. Broward is in the progress of updating their system to P25 Phase II and having two talkpaths per frequency will increase capacity to handle these issues.

There have been 18 school shootings so far this year. That is both sad and disgusting. Parkland was just named the safest city in ALL of Florida. Similar to Sandy Hook and how parents think their children were safe. I think we all have quickly realized that no one is safe anywhere. It makes me want to homeschool my daughter, but we are resilient.

You can’t blame an object, or as the media puts it “high-powered assault weapons.” If someone has intent, they can do just as much damage with a simple handgun, a knife (think of the knife attack in China at the train station that killed 29 people) or they can go on the Internet and learn how to make a bomb like what was used at the Boston marathon. Or I think of the just recent Home Depot rented truck running over people in NYC. Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.

We cannot sit here and even attempt to get into the mind of someone who kills an innocent person, let alone in a school, especially children. I’m still of the mindset that the only way to stop a threat is to immediately confront that threat with violence. I carry my gun everywhere, including church (remember South Carolina). By the time someone calls 911 and police arrives, how many innocent people can be killed?

We need to report things that don’t look right. If you see something, say something. This kid was on the radar of the school and police (according to media reports). And it still happened. So maybe we need to get tougher on mental illness. Maybe we need to lock down our schools better. Maybe we need to have armed security or off-duty/retired LEOs at our schools. Maybe we need more people with concealed carry permits that can take out these maniacs. But the bottom line is we need a comprehensive plan to do something about it.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

blantonl

Founder and CEO
Staff member
Joined
Dec 9, 2000
Messages
9,435
Location
San Antonio, TX
I reviewed all the archives, and it sounds like they had major problems with the radio system just after the incident started. Mainly, not enough capacity to handle all the rush of traffic. There are actual references on air to opening trouble tickets to Motorola and having all non-essential traffic to cease during the incident. That’s crazy.

I’ve dealt personally with issues on Broadcastify where we have had unexpected capacity and downtime issues, but this seems like this system has been limping along for a while and this was pretty much expected given the condition of the system and scope of the incident.

Expect to see a lot of expidited changes and additional funding to implement better interoperaability in this area. Also expect that heads will roll once it is made obvious what is STILL in place today and why this issue of capacity management has not been fixed.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
11,733
Location
SNCZCA01DS0
What I see most of them having in common is they don't know how to handle disappointment, criticism, rejection, peer pressure, and failure.
In other words: "Kids". These issues have been happening for ever. They are not going to change. Some kids are better at it than others. Some are worse than others. There is no standard kid. Expecting kids to all act/behave the same way in the same situations ignores the fact that they are human and all have had different experiences in their life.

Misguided society and well meaning parents have created spoiled, inept, helpless,
There is a lot of things to blame it on, and it varies, not all kids are the same.

mentally unbalanced,
The correct term is mental illness, and until the USA starts to pay attention to it and treat it, this will continue.

over medicated social misfits.
Medication can be helpful, when it's applied correctly. The issue is that not every doctor applies it correctly and a lot of parents walk in wanting quick and inexpensive treatment. Again, that ignores mental illness.

As long as everything goes their way, they get their new iPhones every year, aren't required to work, or even help out at home, they're fine! Tell them 'NO', tell them they can't have something, they need to make something of themselves, get a job, grow up, and god forbid act responsible and be held accountable all Hell breaks lose!
That's kind of an over generalization, but I get where you are going. Not all kids are that way. I work at a university, and while I don't work with students, I am around them quite a bit. Most of them are good, hard working, regular kids trying to make something better for themselves. Out of the 30,000, there are a few bad seeds, just like in any slice of society, just like there is a percentage of any population that suffers from mental illness.

But, I take it from your comments, you don't have kids, and you certainly don't have a child with a mental illness.
 

ipfd320

Member
Banned
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
753
Location
W.Babylon N.Y. 11704
Since it Has,not Been Mentioned this was @ the Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida

17 Fatalities Could be Higher-No Report on total Injuries

The gunman, armed with a semiautomatic AR-15 rifle, was identified as (Name Withheld on Here) a 19-year-old who had been expelled from the school, the authorities said and is ( IN CUSTODY )

nytimes.com has alot More on the Story
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
11,733
Location
SNCZCA01DS0
Expect to see a lot of expidited changes and additional funding to implement better interoperaability in this area. Also expect that heads will roll once it is made obvious what is STILL in place today and why this issue of capacity management has not been fixed.

Yup. When Columbine happened, I was sitting in a meeting outside Dallas Texas with Ericsson talking with them and a bunch of other customers. Most of those other customers were large universities. While on break, we were watching the news. All of us knew that it was going to drive a lot of spending on technology. It happens every time. Doesn't always fix things, but it's certainly one way to loosen up the purse strings. And at least the guys in charge can say "well, we spent $xxx dollars, what else do you expect us to do.
And I'm sure the large radio manufacturers will be ready to accept.

While you can design a radio system for a limited amount of blocking, there's always going to be situations where it's not going to be big enough. There comes a place where you have to balance costs against capability. Getting it to 0.1% blocking takes a lot of money. Getting it to 0.01% blocking takes a lot more.
Likely we'll see that the local agencies will ask for a LOT more money to upgrade their system, and the local taxpayers will abide.

What needs to happen is better training/discipline in radio use, along with appropriately designed radio systems.
 

Baker845

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Messages
130
Location
Oregon
I listened to the traffic, when i could and it sounded like everything was working ok. I didn't hear channel with open air off and on, but something this big it happens. It's sad that this country has so much mental illness. I don't care to speak about the the kid that did this act. He should been locked up years ago.
 

iMONITOR

Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
7,204
Location
MACOMB, MI.
In other words: "Kids". These issues have been happening for ever. They are not going to change. Some kids are better at it than others. Some are worse than others. There is no standard kid. Expecting kids to all act/behave the same way in the same situations ignores the fact that they are human and all have had different experiences in their life.

There is a lot of things to blame it on, and it varies, not all kids are the same.

The correct term is mental illness, and until the USA starts to pay attention to it and treat it, this will continue.

Medication can be helpful, when it's applied correctly. The issue is that not every doctor applies it correctly and a lot of parents walk in wanting quick and inexpensive treatment. Again, that ignores mental illness.

That's kind of an over generalization, but I get where you are going. Not all kids are that way. I work at a university, and while I don't work with students, I am around them quite a bit. Most of them are good, hard working, regular kids trying to make something better for themselves. Out of the 30,000, there are a few bad seeds, just like in any slice of society, just like there is a percentage of any population that suffers from mental illness.

But, I take it from your comments, you don't have kids, and you certainly don't have a child with a mental illness.
I don't totally disagree with you. However I don't consider an 18-19 year old a kid. He's a young adult. All kids are different, no two are the same, but when one decides to shoot up a school, movie theater, etc, they're not just being kids!

Call it mental illness if you want, but that doesn't make an act like today acceptable, understandable or forgivable to any extent in my mind. If a young person does something like this, people say their troubled, disturbed, and yes mentally ill. If it's an older person, they're an animal, a terrorist, etc. Where do you draw the line between someone like a 50 year old serial killer that many feel deserves the death penalty, and this shooter in the news today?

My wife and I raised two fine boys. They were not without troubles, and moments like most. And yes I know all too well about mental illness. My mother was mentally ill, bipolar. It developed when I was about 3 years old. My sister and I did not have an easy life. We were fortunate to have a father who hung in there, worked hard, taught us right from wrong, and took good care of us. He sought out good care and treatment for my mother.

Most of these mass shooters have showed definite signs mental problems. But again, the parents, friends, teachers and society chose to look the other way. Worse yet, they make excuses for them, letting them know they can throw a tantrum when things don't go their way and the behavior festers as they get older.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
11,733
Location
SNCZCA01DS0
Call it mental illness if you want, but that doesn't make an act like today acceptable, understandable or forgivable to any extent in my mind. If a young person does something like this, people say their troubled, disturbed, and yes mentally ill. If it's an older person, they're an animal, a terrorist, etc. Where do you draw the line between someone like a 50 year old serial killer that many feel deserves the death penalty, and this shooter in the news today?
No, a mental illness doesn't make it OK. What I was getting at was that unless we as a country in general stop ignoring mental illness and start recognizing it as the huge issue it is, and then start treating it, nothing is going to improve. We can't say that mental health isn't a factor in these events, and we can't just shrug it off as only a mental health issue. It's complex and there are not any easy answers.

My wife and I raised two fine boys. They were not without troubles, and moments like most. And yes I know all too well about mental illness. My mother was mentally ill, bipolar. It developed when I was about 3 years old. My sister and I did not have an easy life. We were fortunate to have a father who hung in there, worked hard, taught us right from wrong, and took good care of us. He sought out good care and treatment for my mother.
I take back what I said then, you do understand. It just wasn't clear in your post.


Most of these mass shooters have showed definite signs mental problems. But again, the parents, friends, teachers and society chose to look the other way. Worse yet, they make excuses for them, letting them know they can throw a tantrum when things don't go their way and the behavior festers as they get older.
Yep, I agree. Too many people looking the other way. It's not my problem. Let someone else deal with it. Etcetera, etcetera….
And that's what needs to change. That puts a huge load on the teachers and schools, but that's where a lot of these problems are going to present themselves. Not all parents are capable of recognizing it, dealing with it and seeking treatment for their kids.

I'm not claiming to know the answers, just pointing out what I see. We've had so many of these shootings, and all we get are "thoughts and prayers". Not much has changed. More guns isn't the answer. Taking away all guns isn't going to solve it. Having more police in schools isn't going to solve it. It's going to take a thousand little changes all across the board. But none of that is going to happen until we accept the problem and decide to do something about it.


Back on the radio subject….
Looking at some of the photos, looks like a lot of the first responders were carrying nice new APX radios. Hard to say they don't have the right radios for the job. Certainly could be some loading issues on the trunked system, but that's to be expected.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top