Should scrambling be noted on a listing?

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IC-R20

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So if I noticed a group that's in the database start using the Analog voice inversion scrambling should I make a submission to have the description updated? And if so how should it be worded?
 

wa8pyr

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So if I noticed a group that's in the database start using the Analog voice inversion scrambling should I make a submission to have the description updated? And if so how should it be worded?
We don't track encryption type, only the fact that a frequency or talkgroup is encrypted, so just submit that it's encrypted. Also make sure to mention whether the encryption is full-time or part-time.
 

Hit_Factor

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Some TGs only allow encrypted transmissions. Other TGs allow either, leaving it up to the user of the prep. When I was a LEO I could enable or disable as needed.
 
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When a channel or frequency gets encrypted, I would have thought it was always encrypted..
Nope. As a matter of fact, sometimes it is only on one end of the transmission.

Some agencies switch it on and off at will.

It can be switched on during an incident or to conceal tactics or details of the incident.
 

Blackink

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So if I had a frequency entered into my scanner that I listen to when squelch breaks and that frequency decides to "switch" to encryption, what will I hear then? Static?
 

Hit_Factor

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Uniden's usually blank encrypted channels. Can't say what others do. With a SDR stick you can probably listen to the encrypted signal. It will sound different than static.
 

n5ims

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Why would encryption be part time vs. full time?
When a channel or frequency gets encrypted, I would have thought it was always encrypted....
I lived in an area where the PD used a conventional single frequency repeater system and normal radios included no encryption (if you can call voice scrambling encryption) but the supervisors had it included. When a supervisor needed to talk to another supervisor or the chief they could activate the encryption so they had some privacy. They initially thought that they could do what they wanted using just a different PL, but their radios would switch to CSQ (no PL on receive) when the mic hangup clip was grounded so anyone could defeat that plan.
 

IC-R20

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So if I had a frequency entered into my scanner that I listen to when squelch breaks and that frequency decides to "switch" to encryption, what will I hear then? Static?
Uniden auto skips, Whistler plays the "busy" dial tone like you would get on a landline phone, some older scanners just mute. If you were to hear it though it just sounds like garbled audio. Like alien robots.

Here's a couple samples
P25:

DMR:
 

milf

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Also depends on if they are running encryption over analog, or on a digital carrier. On some systems encryption sounds like an digital growling/buzzing that changes pitch a bit. On others it sounds like almost an R2-D2 garble, an on yet others its almost a combination. The older GRE/Radio Shack scanners passed all audio, including encrypted. If it sounds like garbled Donald Duck, its usually Voice Inversion.
 

milf

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Why would encryption be part time vs. full time?
When a channel or frequency gets encrypted, I would have thought it was always encrypted....
Also, take for example an EMS agency we have here in IN. Indiana University Health - LifeLine. They run what we call "Partial Encryption". Some of the units run encryption at all times, others only in special circumstances. With Motorola at least, you have the following options for "secure" settings: Strapped Full Time (ADP or AES256), User Selectable, or Clear. With user selectable, you can have multiple variations in use. And Strapping can be set up in multiple ways also. And the settings can be changed on the fly with OTAP (Over The Air Programming), and the Encryption Keys can be changed on the fly with OTAR (Over The Air Re-Keying).
 

ecps92

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All depends on who programmed it.

One Dept might make the ENC user selectable, where-as another [some - not all FEDS] may go an strap the radio for always ENC
and then there are the Part-time which includes there where DISP is ENC but users not and vice-vers
Why would encryption be part time vs. full time?
When a channel or frequency gets encrypted, I would have thought it was always encrypted....
 

IC-R20

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All depends on who programmed it.

One Dept might make the ENC user selectable, where-as another [some - not all FEDS] may go an strap the radio for always ENC
and then there are the Part-time which includes there where DISP is ENC but users not and vice-vers
On full time talkgroups/frequencies you also sometimes get accidental spills. There was a great video of a WS1080 on youtube that recorded some in the clear secret service traffic during a presidential visit in 2011 or so. I also remember reading someone talk about monitoring the simplex frequency for their local post office because sometimes the P25 would also spill out into the clear. The advantages of having a record capable scanner.
 

IC-R20

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Well looks like they stopped after a week. Guess they didn't care for the reception issues it caused much lmao
 
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bravo14

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In my area Gulf County FL uses DMR Conv on UHF. The GCSO uses "e" I only hear Dispatch the units are Enc. Now Washington Co FL they use uhf dmr and they are open. Only time I see E is when Detectives are using it.
 

RRR

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Glad GRE/Whistlers allow you to hear the "Garbage" so you have the ability to know you have everything entered correctly, Uniden blurps and skips so fast, you can't tell if what you entered is correct or not.
 

u2brent

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RS PRO651 will pass enc audio and stop on the Tg's, till you hit avoid. Much better to have the control in the users hand.. At least have an option.. :unsure:

-- Ahem, UNIDEN :mad: Thanks a lot..
 
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rittmanfireman

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I think a lot of people missed a BIG fact here. The OP said that he was talking about rolled speech inversion. This in not encryption and can be unscrambled very easy. See this WIKI . -Edit For anyone who is wondering "scrambling" is different from Encryption in two major ways. The first is that it is not legal for anyone to Decrypt a signal for which they are not the intended recipient. This does not apply to a scrambled signal. The second is the way that the two systems work. A scrambled system/channel simply applies filters to the audio to make it hard to understand and in most cases it can be un done with a small effort. Encryption uses a crypto to encode digital audio data. A private key is stored in the transmitter and in the receiver that allows for the process to take place.
 
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buddrousa

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And several of us also like not hearing things that we can understand. I see both sides and wish it was setup in the users hands.
If it opens and all you hear is the garbled audio I have no idea if they are after a dog or drug thug.
 
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