A new GMRS repeater identifying itself as "SHTFLI" recently popped up on 462.625 which is interfering with existing repeaters on the same frequency in the NYC area. It appears that this new repeater which sounds like it is in Nassau County, Long Island is running excessively high power. Can anyone give me further information on this new repeater and what the output power limitations are as per FCC rules and regulations?
"SHTFLI" GMRS Repeater 462.625 MHz
- Thread starter namhcor
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nd5y
Member
GMRS operations including repeaters is in FCC Part 95
SteveC0625
Order of the Golden Dino since 1972
Did you research this repeater on mygmrs.com? You would have answered your own questions and more.
TSFIYF
Thanks for the quick replies. As I read the rules in Part 95.135(d), A fixed station must transmit with no more than 15 watts output power. It is quite evident that this new repeater is running ALOT more than 15 watts output power.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Repeaters are allowed 50 watts, not 15, and antenna gain is unlimited. A 50 watt machine with good feedline, a high gain antenna and a good location is going to sound really strong, yet be perfectly legal. I used to have access to a GMRS repeater in a really good location that would easily allow me to communicate 100 miles. All perfectly legal.
KB7MIB
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Wirelessly posted (Opera/9.80 (BREW; Opera Mini/6.0.3/27.2354; U; en) Presto/2.8.119 320X240 LG VN530)
In the GMRS, a fixed station was for point-to-point communications. They were limited to a directional antenna and 15 watts. There are very few, if any, fixed stations left.
In the last rules revision, many rules parts were dropped, which has led to some confusion, as other rules parts weren't modified to reflect the ones that were dropped. So there are still some references to fixed stations, but other rules parts that further explained them are gone :/
WPXJ598
In the GMRS, a fixed station was for point-to-point communications. They were limited to a directional antenna and 15 watts. There are very few, if any, fixed stations left.
In the last rules revision, many rules parts were dropped, which has led to some confusion, as other rules parts weren't modified to reflect the ones that were dropped. So there are still some references to fixed stations, but other rules parts that further explained them are gone :/
WPXJ598
902
Member
Be very careful when taking power into consideration.
15 W OUTPUT on UHF can easily translate to more than 100 W EFFECTIVE RADIATED POWER.
These days, Part 95 generally fails when referring to fixed-site implementations. At one time, repeaters had to be licensed the same way business and public safety users did, with all of the parameters. It even used the same form (FCC 574). But that restriction changed in the later 90s with the prevalence of blister-packed radios and licensing on GMRS is now a pay-your-fee free-for-all.
100 W on a high site will have a substantial signal (maybe even more of a signal than many public safety users) -- and will not be in violation of the Rule because the rule mentions nothing about ERP. You're talking about folks who are resourceful enough to buy an ambulance and convert it into... I really don't know what it is, but it's a cool picture...; they are probably resourceful enough to get on a good communications site.
15 W OUTPUT on UHF can easily translate to more than 100 W EFFECTIVE RADIATED POWER.
These days, Part 95 generally fails when referring to fixed-site implementations. At one time, repeaters had to be licensed the same way business and public safety users did, with all of the parameters. It even used the same form (FCC 574). But that restriction changed in the later 90s with the prevalence of blister-packed radios and licensing on GMRS is now a pay-your-fee free-for-all.
100 W on a high site will have a substantial signal (maybe even more of a signal than many public safety users) -- and will not be in violation of the Rule because the rule mentions nothing about ERP. You're talking about folks who are resourceful enough to buy an ambulance and convert it into... I really don't know what it is, but it's a cool picture...; they are probably resourceful enough to get on a good communications site.
quarterwave
Member
Not to be snide...but a new repeater is not necessarily "interfering" with other repeaters. The GMRS channels are shared and it is up to operators to cooperate and coordinate channels in a given area if at all possible. As long as it is licensed, it can be there too. Now, I can understand the frustration, been through that myself, even though my area is quite rural.
Also, unless you are staring at a wattmeter attached to their feedline...you cannot tell how much power they are using accurately, much less claim it is excessive. I can hear a repeater that is 75 miles away and he is running around 40 watts....50 is the limit. Good luck, hopefully everyone can play nice, but I hear NYC is a hard place to run GMRS.
Also, unless you are staring at a wattmeter attached to their feedline...you cannot tell how much power they are using accurately, much less claim it is excessive. I can hear a repeater that is 75 miles away and he is running around 40 watts....50 is the limit. Good luck, hopefully everyone can play nice, but I hear NYC is a hard place to run GMRS.
902
Member
You could determine effective radiated power through signal strength measured into a calibrated device, like a spectrum analyzer with a known antenna and cable loss, then do free-space calculations to derive ERP. You can even determine transmitter power if you had an indication of the system's antenna gain (there is none recorded for GMRS) and duplexer insertion loss.
I used to check my stuff like that all the time. I knew what my link budget was and any deviation up or down needed to be verified at the site. When you're a one-man operation and have to drive 50 miles out and 50 miles back with other things waiting, it's worth it to do stuff like that. It's all math and it really does work.
Sure, those things are variables and there are a wide range of parameters, but if you have a signal that's way stronger than nominal parameters say it should be, and there is no atmospheric enhancement, then an Enforcement Bureau agent could make a case for a site inspection... if one would be inclined to do so. GMRS is usually not a top priority item for them.
It's probably not worth the effort. There are 7 other channels that could be used - or - just spend the money and get coordinated/licensed for a business frequency pair that doesn't have a radio rescue team on it.
I used to check my stuff like that all the time. I knew what my link budget was and any deviation up or down needed to be verified at the site. When you're a one-man operation and have to drive 50 miles out and 50 miles back with other things waiting, it's worth it to do stuff like that. It's all math and it really does work.
Sure, those things are variables and there are a wide range of parameters, but if you have a signal that's way stronger than nominal parameters say it should be, and there is no atmospheric enhancement, then an Enforcement Bureau agent could make a case for a site inspection... if one would be inclined to do so. GMRS is usually not a top priority item for them.
It's probably not worth the effort. There are 7 other channels that could be used - or - just spend the money and get coordinated/licensed for a business frequency pair that doesn't have a radio rescue team on it.
Hopefully we can get the frequency co-channel interference issue resolved because it is a big problem.
I contacted an official connected with Nassau County OEM and he tells me that SHTFLI has absolutely no official standing within the emergency preparedness chain. They are nothing more than a freelance REACT type of organization. As for the old converted ambulance, it is not an authorized emergency vehicle and he equates it to a Salvation Army or Red Cross truck.
I contacted an official connected with Nassau County OEM and he tells me that SHTFLI has absolutely no official standing within the emergency preparedness chain. They are nothing more than a freelance REACT type of organization. As for the old converted ambulance, it is not an authorized emergency vehicle and he equates it to a Salvation Army or Red Cross truck.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Hmmm, sounds a lot like the definition of a whacker.
quarterwave
Member
Of course, keep in mind, this is GMRS, whether or not that are some form of an "official" group, if the station is operated by someone with a license, they are entitled to use it. But again, I can only imagine the frustration in an area so congested.
profiledescent
Member
"SHTFLI" Is that an acronym for anything? I know how I'd pronounce it, so wondering if it belongs to one of those WTSHTF prepper groups. GMRS,...it's the new CB. FCC lost control of it a long time ago.
CaptDan
Member
It's my understanding it's an acronym for
S _ _ _ Hits the Fan Long Island ( new york)
S _ _ _ Hits the Fan Long Island ( new york)
It looks like some department using it for fire department and not sure if that's true or not
Some FD's on Long Island use GMRS repeaters for a Buff Frequency.
ecps92
Member
As there are no other listings at least shown on (mygmrs) of other repeaters in the area on that pair I can only assume the interference you may be referring to in on that new jersey machine in Green Brook.
Did you go to the extent of contacting a official at OEM before trying to even reach out to the group themselves?
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