Signal 13 in front of my house!!!!

[mlevin]

Well as I write this, I'm a bit bummed out. You see last night we had the most excitement that we've had for the last 2 years or so, and I slept right through it.

Aparentlly a mentaly challenged neighbor of mine, was trespassing in someone's backyard, and an officer on patrol told him to go home. Well 20 minutes later the guy was walking in front of my house, and the cop happened to drive by again. She got out of her car, and told him to go home again. At that point he proceeded, to hit her, and a struggle followed. My mom who was on her way to bed, heard all sorts of noises and shouting outside. She looked out the window and saw them both fighting, and didn't realize it was the police. She calls 911, and says "I need the police.....Oh my G-d it is the police! At that point the operater orders up a signal 13 in the system, and the whole universe came crashing down on this lunatic.

Well the whole neighborhood came rushing out of their houses, and I slept through it. I had my sister screaming in my ear to wake up and turn the scanner on, and I didn't hear a peep.

Well I have to make sure this thread has something to do about scanners. So, did anybody here a signal 13 go out in the Northwest district around 1:15AM

 

[CapitalPunishment]

Wow, i'd be kicking myself if i missed that. Heck, i wouldnt even think about the scanner till afterwards, i'd be running out there to help the officer!

 

[TinEar]

Nope, didn't hear that one at all but did hear the one around midnight from the Northeast division from unit 41. Also heard one on PG County late afternoon when a cop wound up shooting a guy that was blasting away in the neigborhood and then ran right at the cop with gun pointed. Not a smart thing to do.

Speaking of guns...have you ever noticed that some police units will never, ever say the word "gun?" It's always a 10-32 even when that sounds completely foolish in context. AA County is one of those units. "He's reported to be carrying a 10-32. There's a 10-32 under the front passenger seat. I saw him pointing his 10-32 at the guy. His wife says there is a 10-32 in the house." Or as that famous actress would have said..."Is that a 10-32 in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?"
One of the reasons I like listening to the DC Police is that they use a minimum of Codes and 10-signals. If they mean "gun," they say "gun." Maybe it's just me but I think using 10-32 instead of gun sounds kind of wussie.

 

[SCPD]

There's nothing like that little orange button on the radio when you're ass deep in alligators. I've summoned the cavalry a few times in the past and it sure is a great feeling when you hear the sirens coming!

The wife and I are planning a trip to Maryland sometime in October. Is A.A. County still using analog or have they gone 100% digital? Can I still use my BC780XLT and PRO-95 without a problem?

 

[CapitalPunishment]

Theyre analog.

 

[mlevin]

Their still analog. They switched frquencies and TGs so check the databse.

Get this, when the cop had him subdued, and where talking to him, he said, "Leave me alone, I'm retarded." The cop responded, "You're smart enough to hit me!" It really is ashame, but from what I hear it was wild for a few minutes.

 

[dc2wheel]

Speaking of guns...have you ever noticed that some police units will never, ever say the word "gun?" ... One of the reasons I like listening to the DC Police is that they use a minimum of Codes and 10-signals. If they mean "gun," they say "gun." ...

Wow...I thought Montgomery County was overly 'PC' by using 'codes' for a subjects race - i.e. code 1 = black, code 2 = white, etc. but not using the word gun? I guess growing up listening to scanners in DC the 'man with a gun' call just seems so common [unfortunately]...
-dc2wheel

 

[mlevin]

In Baltimore City 10-32 means sufficient units on the scene, stop holding the air. Also here they call it a #1 male or a #2 male. But signal 13 seems to be common through out the region.

 

[TinEar]

True Mo...I've always wondered why Baltimore City used the 10-32 rather than the 10-22 that most other jurisdictions use. But I guess each city has its own quirks that they get used to. DC still uses that silly 10-99 and 10-4 to mean one or two man cars. Not silly once you get used to it though I suppose. Most major cities around the country that I've listened to over the years tend to just say what they mean rather than using a lot of codes. I think being clear and saying exactly what you mean would be helpful to the guy or gal on the street doing the dirty work. Most major cities also use "black" or "white" to describe race rather than the #1 or #2 PC nonsense. Baltimore seems to use a mixture of both, while DC says what they mean. It's just that 10-32/gun thing that grates on me. Anyway, sorry you missed all the excitement outside your door. You must really be a heavy sleeper. Once you get out on your own you better buy a dog.

 

[mlevin]

Yeah real heavy sleeper, considering Foxtrot was hovering overhead

 

[TinEar]

When you mentioned Foxtrot, it reminded me of a piece of trivia I learned a couple of nights ago when a DC cop was shot/shot at in DC's 3rd District. They thought the perp was on the rooftops and had to call in the Park Police Eagle helicopter. Don't know why DC's choppers were down but, anyway, when Eagle works in DC, it can only transmit on the Citywide freq. It does not have the individual District frequencies. Nice to know if you ever follow Eagle working with the Metro PD for some reason.

 

[SCPD]

The race codes are used when issuing citations, etc. On the back of the Maryland Uniform Complaint and Citation form, i.e., traffic ticket, it will list all the race codes to choose from. On the front of the citation there's a block to enter the race code. If you fill out a job app these days they also have a "voluntary" ethnic background data form to fill out as well. The codes on it to denote race are similar to what the L.E. agencies use. I suppose it's eliminate confusion and make it easy for the officer??? Here in 'Jawja they haven't got to the level of ridiculous yet on P.C. that some places have. They still call 'em by their color. And yes, each county here also uses a different set of 10 codes and signals.

Right when I was leaving A.A. County they began using the new Federal race data sheet. We had to fill one out on every traffic stop conducted. Montgomery County was the first in the State to use the "politikially korrect" form and A.A. County was one of the last. It's a mandate by the Feds to prevent the "profiling" of drivers. When I worked the midnight shift I always found it difficult to "profile" a driver before stopping them. All sarcasm intended B.T.W.

 

[Metro174]

I heard both the 13's mentioned last night. One in NW was as I was coming in the door from work. Didn't get a chance to switch over to NW to see what it was all about though. The one with Unit 41 I did get to listen too.

 

[rpoole23]

From previous experience when hitting that red button and screaming "Signal 13" on the radio, it can seem like forever until other units get to you! It is interesting to listen to, but can be downright scary when it is you struggling on the front yard with the bad guy!
I find myself more and more just stating what I mean to say over the radio instead of using each and every 10 code. When each agency was on their own set of frequencies (many being on separate conventional ones) everyone on the radio was from the same agency and there was less confusion on what each person wanted. Now with trunked systems and many agencies on different systems and mutual aid available with a switch of the knob, not to mention going to other jurisdictions and just switching the channel, it is more and more easier and maybe safer to just state what you have or what you need. All officers understand "gun" "help" and other universal words.. Now you don't have to wait forever for your dispatcher to speak with another dispatcher on the phone and relay info while you are chasing the felony suspect at high speeds....(at least that is the way is is SUPPOSSED to work!)...

 

[mlevin]

Why doesn't everybody just adopt a national standard 10 code list. Wasn't that what the original APCO codes where for? That way you can have short, concice and to the point conversations that everybody anywhere can understand.

 

[TinEar]

Off Topic - An Editorial

National standard? We already have one - it's the English language - understood by all no matter the jurisdiction. There is no benefit of using 10-codes other than to "hide" something from a listener. Sometimes that's beneficial, such as when an officer is standing next to a perp and needs to convey something to the dispatcher or vice versa. Most often, they are just a hinderance.

Voice radio operators fell into this trap in the early days by trying to emulate CW radio operators that needed to shorten conversations by adopting Q-signals. It saved a lot of tapping on the code key. So the voice operators used a few Q-signals in the early days and then later changed to 10-codes. Back when radios were first put into police cars, the conversations were very difficult to hear because of unreliable communications and 10-codes were justified to enhance understanding. To me, 10-codes are a historical leftover that should be dumped in favor of plain, old, vanilla English language commands.

We make a lot of noise about interoperability among units and jurisdictions during emergencies like 9/11 that opened our eyes to these needs. Once we make interoperability really happen (if ever), we need a common language. Fifty sets of 10-codes won't do it. The English language will.

End of editorial.

 

[K5MAR]

TinEar, while I agree with you to a degree, 10 and signal codes do serve a useful purpose, other than to obscure the meanings. 10 and signal codes are precise, the English language is not. (If you don't think there can be confusion between speakers of English, put people from New York, Georgia, California, and England in the same room and listen to the converstaion!) Speaking as a former LEO dispatcher, I can tell you that, particularly during high adrenaline situations, language is used that is not, shall we say, "accurate", and can be possibly considered inflammatory. And even plain language can be confusing, as there are still terms that are used differently by different agencies. A recognized 10 code list for an area helps to eliminate confusion (in that area).

So, both 10 codes and plain language have their uses, depending on the situation,and who you are talking to.

Mark S.

 

[lschmidt]

There needs to be a national 10 code and Signal code that has the same
meaning no matter where in the USA it is used. Some agencies come up
with their own 10 codes and that is confusing to outside agencies not
familiar with it..Didn't APCO have a national 10 code at one time?

 

[TinEar]

Mark S., your points are well taken. I look at it more from the angle that you describe as "high adrenaline situations." When those situations occur, almost all officers resort to plain English - yes, sometimes inflammatory - but the use of 10-codes seems to disappear. The initial 10-13 or 10-33 or 10-whatever is called out by the dispatcher but seldom by the officer in trouble. He/she will just shout out the problem and hit his emergency button if possible. That should be the indication that 10-codes are not ingrained enough to convey the fear or angst of the situation and are not "natural" to the speaker during an emergency. But that can be debated.

Looking at it with the wide angle lens of interoperability between agencies during emergencies, we simply cannot have the use of anything other than plain English...OR...a standard set of 10-codes. However, those don't presently exist. So, as you also point out, it's only the local agency that is served by a set of 10-codes that were devised by that agency. Any agency interworking will demand precise, understandable commands. That requirement will not be served by 10-codes as they are presently constructed on a local level. Even the phonetic alphabet causes problems when an uncommon word-for-letter is uttered. You say "Alpha," I say "Adam."

Anyway, it's an interesting point of debate and a problem for the planners. Thanks for your input based on experience in the dispatch chair.

 

[K5MAR]

Anyway, it's an interesting point of debate and a problem for the planners.

That will be the interesting part! If you think there is confusion in the field, wait until you see what happens when you get a bunch of brass and bureaucrats in the same room trying to agree on anything. We would all be better servered if the meetings were held by the rank and file, those that actually have to use whatever is decided.

As to the other questions about the "official" APCO 10-codes, the one I saw back in the '70s was a very truncated version of what most agencies used even then. If APCO has come out with an official, expanded list, I haven't seen it. Of course, the adoption of any such list as official would be subject to as much resistance from tha various agencies as the current debate of plain English. (Is it "suspect" or "actor"? Or I've heard "PI" - "Person of Interest" used by some agencies. But isn't "PI" Public Intox?)

Yes, this will be very interesting!

Y'all be careful out there!
Mark S.