Site frequencies need updating(?)

[WestRiver]

Prior to the Phase II upgrade in April, I took a screenshot of the site frequencies for the Terry Peak tower. After the upgrade was complete (and even to this day) the site frequencies have remained the same. After the Phase II upgrade, shouldn't the frequencies be in the 700-900 range, and not analog?

Since the upgrade, I have been unable to get my scanner programmed to the Terry Peak site (or Seth Bullock, Sly Hill, etc.) I've had other scanner gurus look at my programming and they are stumped as to why it won't pick any digital traffic up. It was picking up everything prior to Phase II.

Can anyone confirm my suspicions that the site frequencies listed on RR are not correct since the Phase II upgrade?

 

[bbtkd]

Frequencies in the SD Digital system have been will continue to be VHF and Digital. Frequency has nothing to do with whether it's digital or analog.

What brand and model of scanner do you have?

 

[WestRiver]

Thanks, I just wanted to clarify. 👍

I've got a Uniden BCD996P2. It's been great, but I've had nothing but problems since the Phase II upgrade. I'll keep playing around though and hopefully I'll get it figured out.

 

[bbtkd]

That should work fine. If you're hearing nothing, either there is nothing to hear or the control frequencies listed aren't correct for that site, presuming at least one of the talk channels is correct.

Are you hearing anything on the old system programming for that site?

 

[ORION_NE]

Did you change the system from MOT Type II to P25? With a VHF P25 you do not need to program a band plan. The scanner will download the band plan from the control channel.

 

[spearfishian]

I don't know if this has anything to do with it BUT....I have recently been learning about SDRs and how they and the associated software works. I've been listening to Lead the past week and messing with programming settings etc. It took me way too long to notice but I found that 160.005 is functioning as the primary control channel at the Lead site, at least right now. The database lists two different frequencies as the control channels. No idea, but when I put it in my configuration as that, 160.005, being the control it works perfectly.
Again, no idea if that's your issue. But definitely a quirk I noticed.

 

[n0vek]

Does anyone know the control frequencies for Toronto? The old don't seem to work. Works for for Brookings and Madison sites. Just shows NFM instead for control freq on the Uniden 996P2. Have the new talk groups programmed in also. Old talk groups no longer work with new P25 sites.

 

[dave3825]

Does anyone know the control frequencies for Toronto? The old don't seem to work.

What are the old? What's listed is

1 (1)

034 (22)

Toronto

Deuel

155.685c

157.500

159.975c

160.335

Old talk groups no longer work with new P25 sites.

System Notes​

Talkgroups on this new system generally correspond to the same talkgroups on the old (Motorola) SD State system, divided by 16.

 

[RaleighGuy]

Prior to the Phase II upgrade in April, I took a screenshot of the site frequencies for the Terry Peak tower. After the upgrade was complete (and even to this day) the site frequencies have remained the same. After the Phase II upgrade, shouldn't the frequencies be in the 700-900 range, and not analog?

Since the upgrade, I have been unable to get my scanner programmed to the Terry Peak site (or Seth Bullock, Sly Hill, etc.) I've had other scanner gurus look at my programming and they are stumped as to why it won't pick any digital traffic up. It was picking up everything prior to Phase II.

Can anyone confirm my suspicions that the site frequencies listed on RR are not correct since the Phase II upgrade?

You need to remember, the RR database is member supported, and submissions and entries come from members who have verified the new or updated information. Changes are NOT made from the FCC database, which may or may not be what is actually used, they are made after verified monitoring submitted through the RR database submission page. If updates have not been made in the system since the P25 Phase 2 change it is because members haven't submitted the confirmed (monitored) info.

Looking at the system it looks like it has been update recently, or at least four sites in green below. Also, it is important to read the system notes about TGs which says:

System Notes​

Talkgroups on this new system generally correspond to the same talkgroups on the old (Motorola) SD State system, divided by 16.

 

[n0vek]

What are the old? What's listed is

1 (1)

034 (22)

Toronto

Deuel

155.685c

157.500

159.975c

160.335

Those are the one I have programmed in. Doesn't seem to take either as control channels. When scanning it just shows NFM under ID SCAN instead of the frequency like it does from Brookings and Madison. So am not sure if they changed frequencies at Toronto site. FCC list 157.500, 159.975, 150.920, and 151.160. I tried them and still nothing. Not sure what I am missing.

 

[dave3825]

That site, and many others were just added 14 days ago. Can only be one of three things. Wrong freqs, sites offline at the moment, or you may have a scanner/programming/reception issue.

Added Site # 34 (Toronto)

theaton

2023-10-10 20:26:25

 

[akleinsrr]

I live in Brookings so I'm within range of the Toronto tower with an external antenna I have set up. I didn't see any activity on any of the 4 frequencies currently in the RRDB for Toronto. So I set up sdr-trunk on the Brookings control channel and found this info for site #34 (note the DOWNLINK frequency of 157.845mhz):


I tuned sdr-trunk to 157.845mhz and it recognizes it as a "P25-1" control channel with the below info (I had to configure this in sdr-trunk for Phase 1; it didn't recognize this as a control channel in Phase 2 mode for some reason):


I listened for awhile and some voice traffic came up on 157.5mhz, which is listed as the secondary control channel in the above info. So I'm confident the RRDB frequencies for Toronto are wrong and they should actually be 157.845mhz for primary control and 157.5mhz secondary control channel / voice channel.

 

[dave3825]

It would appear that way. Can't find a license that reflects 157.84500.

I tuned sdr-trunk to 157.845mhz and it recognizes it as a "P25-1" control channel with the below info (I had to configure this in sdr-trunk for Phase 1; it didn't recognize this as a control channel in Phase 2 mode for some reason):

From Sdrtrunk Wiki on Playlist editor

Note: all APCO25 Phase 2 systems use an APCO25 Phase 1 control channel. Use a Phase 1 decoder for the Phase 2 system and sdrtrunk will automatically create the Phase 2 traffic channels for you. However, if you want to listen to the Phase 2 channels individually, you must supply the descramble settings for the channel.
https://github.com/DSheirer/sdrtrun...s:~:text=Note: all APCO25,network access code

• WACN - wide area communications network (WACN) for the P25 network
• System - system identifier
• NAC - network access code

Playlist Editor

A cross-platform java application for decoding, monitoring, recording and streaming trunked mobile and related radio protocols using Software Defined Radios (SDR). Website: - DSheirer/sdrtrunk

github.com

 

[ecps92]

It would appear that way. Can't find a license that reflects 157.84500.





From Sdrtrunk Wiki on Playlist editor

Playlist Editor

A cross-platform java application for decoding, monitoring, recording and streaming trunked mobile and related radio protocols using Software Defined Radios (SDR). Website: - DSheirer/sdrtrunk

github.com

Seems/IMHO to be a Part 22 frequency.

The main freq is likely one of these two frequencies

157.8300	Part 22 FJ
157.8600	Part 22 FK

 

[n0vek]

Thanks much guys. I put the 157.845 in and it reads as control channel with voice coming over the 157.500. I was hearing voice with tuning there but couldn't get the control channel. Not listed in FCC for that call sign. Thanks also for SDRtruck. Will play around with that learn more from there too.

 

[n0vek]

I live in Brookings so I'm within range of the Toronto tower with an external antenna I have set up. I didn't see any activity on any of the 4 frequencies currently in the RRDB for Toronto. So I set up sdr-trunk on the Brookings control channel and found this info for site #34 (note the DOWNLINK frequency of 157.845mhz):
View attachment 150306

I tuned sdr-trunk to 157.845mhz and it recognizes it as a "P25-1" control channel with the below info (I had to configure this in sdr-trunk for Phase 1; it didn't recognize this as a control channel in Phase 2 mode for some reason):
View attachment 150307

I listened for awhile and some voice traffic came up on 157.5mhz, which is listed as the secondary control channel in the above info. So I'm confident the RRDB frequencies for Toronto are wrong and they should actually be 157.845mhz for primary control and 157.5mhz secondary control channel / voice channel.
View attachment 150308

May I ask what are you using for a SDR radio?

 

[ecps92]

Thanks much guys. I put the 157.845 in and it reads as control channel with voice coming over the 157.500. I was hearing voice with tuning there but couldn't get the control channel. Not listed in FCC for that call sign. Thanks also for SDRtruck. Will play around with that learn more from there too.

What call sign are you hearing that you can't find in the FCC DB??

 

[akleinsrr]

May I ask what are you using for a SDR radio?

I have an rtl-sdr v3. Works fine for some things, but it has a fairly limited bandwidth (2.4mhz). If I were to buy another, I'd choose one with a larger bandwidth like the airspy mini (6mhz, I believe).

Also purchased a variety of connectors so I could easily swap between BNC antenna and coax (TV antenna):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017SOLCMU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Amazon.com

Amazon.com

What call sign are you hearing that you can't find in the FCC DB??

The RRDB lists an FCC callsign of WPWA690 for Toronto. But while monitoring the Toronto control channel in sdr-trunk, a different callsign is listed in the channel detail:

I've looked in both licenses in the FCC DB and neither fully match up with the frequencies I've observed.

 

[ecps92]

I have an rtl-sdr v3. Works fine for some things, but it has a fairly limited bandwidth (2.4mhz). If I were to buy another, I'd choose one with a larger bandwidth like the airspy mini (6mhz, I believe).

Also purchased a variety of connectors so I could easily swap between BNC antenna and coax (TV antenna):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017SOLCMU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Amazon.com

Amazon.com

The RRDB lists an FCC callsign of WPWA690 for Toronto. But while monitoring the Toronto control channel in sdr-trunk, a different callsign is listed in the channel detail:
View attachment 150508
I've looked in both licenses in the FCC DB and neither fully match up with the frequencies I've observed.

Not surprised, seen this occur when equipment is moved/repurposed or disposed of and not reprogrammed or defaulted

You might (YMMV) have some luck searching by FRN = 0003885761 which might find Part 22 licenses such as

ULS License - Part 22 VHF/UHF Paging (excluding 931MHz) License - WQAD668 - BIT/State Radio Communications Engineering