• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

Skywarn

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d_strong

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Rochester, NY
DaveNF2G, I'm sorry to have wasted the members time with my questions it will be my last posting.
 
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kevin390

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Hey d_strong I don't think Dave meant anything with his statement. I don't always agree with everything he says, but he does have one great scanning site. He just proud of it thats all....Ray
 

brianfoy

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New York
DaveNF2G said:
d_strong, the answer to just about every question you've ever asked in this forum can be found somewhere on the NF2G Scannist Pages - http://nf2g.com/scannist/index.html
First,

d_strong or anyone else interested:

The freq your looking for is:

146.8800

For future reference it can be found on this page:
http://www.nf2g.com/scannist/ny_monr/County Public Safety.html.

Now,

Dave, has it occurred to you that perhaps he has been to your website (as I just have) but has standards (like I do) and will only visit websites with a good/usable design like they have here at RR?

Case in point, because you use frames on your site (something that went out in the late 90's because it was deemed not to be friendly to website visitors), I had to link d_strong to a page that has no navigation on the top, sides or bottom and thus would not allow him to get to any other part of your site from that page. That is called poor design and is the makings of a bad website. No matter how good the information on a website is, if you can't find it or get to it, it's just as good as not being there at all. So with that in mind, know that not everyone will find your website to be a fantastic resource, so mindlessly pointing people to its homepage is not very helpful.

Remember, end of the day, people come here for information. If they ask a question here, and if you happen to know the answer, try being truly helpful and simply answer the question here. If you have no answer, or can only offer up a link to you website's homepage (especially when you are not even linking to the exact page the frequency appears on) then try not answering ... it will help to keep the helpful info to noise ratio down.

Brian.
 
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DaveNF2G

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Frames keep the overall size of the website down because the navigation is in one document instead of hundreds. One of the reasons access to my website can be free is that my hosting is donated, so I try to stay within my 200MB (I'm over 180MB now).

To be honest, the main reason is that, if I were to start charging, nobody would bother using it anyway. [vbg]

A search engine would point you to that exact page anyway. The problem is, many people seem to think "search the Internet" means "go on some BBS and ask the same question that's been asked dozens of times already."

Why should I type information in here that I've spent years gathering and maintaining already at my existing website (since 1989 for the web version)? I don't need to do the same work every time somebody fails to use any initiative.

Don't criticize the work people put into FREE resources, OK? I could pull the plug. Then all you'd have is the RR database, which does not contain a lot of the info that is on my website, and which does contain much erroneous data that I have screened out from mine.

(No knock on Lindsey or the db admins here - as I said in one other thread, they cannot possibly check and verify everything themselves, so quite a bit more trust has to go into the mix. Unfortunately, it is sometimes misplaced.)
 

brianfoy

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DaveNF2G said:
Frames keep the overall size of the website down because the navigation is in one document instead of hundreds.
In short, good concept, bad implementation. Google "server side includes", or "php include file" for a Frameless solution to your problem.

DaveNF2G said:
Why should I type information in here that I've spent years gathering and maintaining already at my existing website (since 1989 for the web version)? I don't need to do the same work every time somebody fails to use any initiative.
You shouldn't! That is, unless you want to be more helpful then a robot that posts links to your homepage. It's irritating just how simple this is to do right, either help someone out with an exact answer (like the frequency they are asking for), give them an exact link to the page on your site where they can find the answer (like I did for d_strong), or simply don't answer. You are always within your rights to just skip the posts that annoy you and move on.

The part that gets me Dave, is that if I had to guess I would say you knew the exact page on your site where he could find that frequency when you started your first reply. So in all honesty, this was not about you wasting your time. Because trust me, in the time it took you to formulate and type out that first reply you could have clicked a few times on your own site and copy/pasted him the right link. If you had just done that in the first place, perhaps you would see "thank you" sitting there rather then "thanks for chasing me away".

Point being, if you are going to take the time to hit the reply button and formulate a response, at least fill the little box with something more insightful then yet another link to your homepage. When something that ambiguous is all ya got, it's probably not going to help anyone, in fact, you may just upset someone so try to refrain.

Brian.
 

DaveNF2G

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I don't own the server. I do get free hosting. Nothing more complex than simple HTML and JavaScript is available. That's all.

As for the rest - if I provide a direct link to the page with the exact frequency in my first post, do you know what will happen next? A request for another frequency on a different page that the person could not find for themselves because I've sent them to a navigation-free dead end. Or a different question about something unrelated to a frequency, but that they would have found on my website if they could have seen the menu structure and known that something was there.

Ever notice how many websites have a notice on them that says, "Please link to this page only" or, "Please do not link to individual pages"? Is everyone who requests users to utilize their websites in the way they were designed to be used simply lazy, arrogant, or a poor web designer? Hardly.

My initial posting in this thread, by the way, was not triggered by irritation. I was more bemused than anything. Here is someone posting question after question someplace where the answers are not instead of doing a little searching and finding where the answers are.
 

brianfoy

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DaveNF2G said:
I don't own the server. I do get free hosting. Nothing more complex than simple HTML and JavaScript is available. That's all.
Excellent, you are still in luck! A frameless solution exists for your site using nothing more then JavaScript. Visit http://www.netmechanic.com/news/vol4/javascript_no9.htm and adapt the concept to include your navigation on every page. All you have to do now is care enough to fix it, which I'm sure you do and truly thought you were limited rather then just making excuses. I can't wait to see the fixed site, let us know when it's ready.

DaveNF2G said:
My initial posting in this thread, by the way, was not triggered by irritation. I was more bemused than anything. Here is someone posting question after question someplace where the answers are not instead of doing a little searching and finding where the answers are.
That's funny Dave, because I like to think of it as someone who had the initiative to seek out the most popular site on the net for radio frequencies/discussion and ask it's knowledgeable userbase for help. As opposed to say, searching Google and finding some obscure personal site that may or may not have the right information. Considering the ratio of personal sites out there that have old or incomplete data on them "ask someone at RR first" sounds like a very intelligent solution.

On that note, I encourage people who have questions to ask away and not be scared off by anyone for any reason.

Brian.
 

DaveNF2G

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Geeze. Go count the number of HTML documents I'd have to edit, then tell me how easy that solution is. I also work for a living.

I'm not going to change your opinions, nor am I going to agree with your philosophy. I am an educator and I believe that people should not only learn collections of facts but also the best ways to collect additional facts - and to evaluate the integrity of sources. I am doing my part by putting up and maintaining the website. If people don't find it, which is not at all difficult to do, then that's their hard luck. I still get plenty of traffic and I get a lot of reliable inside information from all over the state on a regular basis. Works for me. YMMV.
 

MB

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Enough!

I respect Dave.. His website serves its purpose and it serves it WELL!
There is more specific information on his website about the area he covers then any other website.
Dave went out of his way to provide a great free service, so why are you bashing him for it? Why?

What has this world come to...
 

brianfoy

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DaveNF2G said:
Geeze. Go count the number of HTML documents I'd have to edit, then tell me how easy that solution is. I also work for a living.
Most modern editors (even some free ones) have mass find and replace functionality across multiple files and folders that could be used to update every one of the files on your site with the additional navigation in less then a min. So I'd say that solution is still quite simple. Just try it, it's easier then it looks. If you need help feel free to PM me.

On a side note, why not submit your up to date and inside information to RR as you receive it (it can't take more then an additional min. or two at a sitting to update/submit to both places). This way RR would be equally up to date and people would have the choice to use this interface as an alternative?

Brian
 

brianfoy

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MB said:
so why are you bashing him for it? Why?
I think it had something to do with his bad attitude toward d_strong? A rude comment that chased the guy off as a matter of fact. That caused me to actually look at his website where I noticed a major design flaw (It's hard not to notice mistakes from the 90's still being made in 2006). I was even helpful and offered up information on how to fix the problem, numerous times, but I would hardly call that bashing.

MB said:
What has this world come to...
Apparently melodrama.

Brian.
 

Spec

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In the South
Dave's site is a tried and proven one. It is as accurate as they come. In addition it also will tell you if the frequencies are in question. New is not always better. I really don't care if it's an "old format" just that it is accurate (which it is). Dave can be a bit short sometimes, but so what. The "old" "...teach a man to fish" isn't such a bad thing. Nor is his site.
 
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kevin390

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I agree Daves site is the most accurate one I have found for the entire New York State area. Is it 100% accurate? Probably not, that would be difficult with the way public safety changes frequencies. But he up-dates it offend and he doesn't charge a thing. I don't know if you have a web-site or not Brian, but you have allot of criticism for a guy who has spent allot of his free time making it easier for people to find frequencies for free and that are as accurate as possible.......Ray
 

DaveNF2G

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Thanks for the support. I can see this thread devolving into a "this site is better than that site" contest, though, so maybe we should all go back to talking about Skywarn before one of the mods decides it's time to lock up. :)

On the website in question, Skywarn channels are listed under individual counties where the repeaters are located, which could make it a bit tedious to find them one at a time. However, I have also listed them together on the Statewide Public Safety page under the Disaster and Emergency Management heading.
 

brianfoy

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I guess we are done. Even if you can't see it right now, my goals here were altruistic and two fold. First to provide the information asked for, (which I did in #5 and received a thank you for my efforts it in PM from d_strong) and then to help Dave understand that we should not act like that here.

A method of that was showing him that when you live in a glass house (aka have a site with a flawed design) you should not throw stones (aka knock people for not using that site). I know that in an effort to be nice a few of you chimed in to show support for his site, but to be honest, just because a few people run up with plywood doesn't change the makeup of the house, and Dave knows this. I was not being cruel, as some of you obviously took this to be, just getting my point across by choosing to address something that would actually cause Dave to sit up and pay attention. Since I can never play the bad guy for long, in the end my good intentions had me offering to help him fix his site, and that offer still stands.

On that note Dave, please try to be more cordial and genuinely helpful in your replies here. Not "short" or any of the other euphemistic ways in which people here have chosen to refer to your attitude so as to not directly offend you. See, I care little about who you are, what website your run, or who likes it. As far as I'm concerned, you are just another RR user. I do care that RR users like you not scare people off with your attitude. In this already small hobby we need to encourage people to stick around and ask for help, even if it means continuing to throw them fish until the day they realize they can fish for themselves.

I think calling people out on behavior like this, rather then just letting it slide with apathetic reasoning like "hey, it's Dave, he is just like that", will hopefully allow RR's board to remain a valuable and helpful resource for everyone rather then slowly be turned into another Fordyce where the bad attitudes eventually overwhelmed us, and one day a valuable and helpful resource was just gone.

Brian.
 

elk2370bruce

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I can sense Dave's frustration. From time to time, we get people here who either are unwilling or incapable of learning to perform their own homework or grow in the hobby. Not all sources are that obscure (including this one). We repeatedly see the posts "Can you post the answers to all my questions so I don't have to think or search for myself?" A few times to help a new member get started is okay but patience begins to wear thin for those with 50+ posts and the light of day has not yet dawned.
 
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