Smartzone questions

[cjradloff76]

Hi I have a lot of Motorola xts and xtls I'm having some issues with getting them talking to each other
The problem is I have 2 in my building on 2 levels
There both trunking radios I can't talk to the other

The only way is to use the conventional channels
I want to use the trunking so I can get the radio I'd number to show on my other radio/scanner

Any ideas
Thanks Clinton

 

[Ubbe]

Isn't there a "talk around" box to tick to make them work in simplex to each other?

/Ubbe

 

[socalradioguy]

If your sole justification for wanting to use "trunked" channels instead of "conventional" ones is to be able to see the ID of the transmitting subscriber unit on the receiving one, I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you aren't qualified, authorized, or trained to program them. If this is the case, but you *are* authorized to make changes to the equipment in question, I'd locate a nearby Motorola authorized dealer and have them reprogram them to work the way you desire in conventional mode.

srg

 

[cjradloff76]

My radios go beep when trying to transmit in smartzone only conventional work's

 

[KE4ZNR]

My radios go beep when trying to transmit in smartzone only conventional work's

Probably because the radio IDs are not active in the system you are trying to access.
No offense but if you are asking these type of questions here then you don't need to be modifying ANY trunking parameters. Take the radios to an authorized radio shop and let trained radio system engineers deal with your issues.

 

[DeoVindice]

This is disturbing on a multitude of levels. Please stop before you interfere with something and/or end up with a bricked radio.

 

[nokones]

Are the radios within range of the Trunk System that you're trying to access?

 

[mmckenna]

Hi I have a lot of Motorola xts and xtls I'm having some issues with getting them talking to each other
The problem is I have 2 in my building on 2 levels
There both trunking radios I can't talk to the other

Are these radios actively connected to the trunked radio site with the permission of the trunked system administrator? Or are these radios you purchased used that you are trying to make work?

The only way is to use the conventional channels

That would have nothing to do with the trunked radio system.

I want to use the trunking so I can get the radio I'd number to show on my other radio/scanner

Any ideas
Thanks Clinton

If these are actively/legally on someone else's trunked radio system, the correct way to do this is to talk to the system administrator.

If these are not connected to any trunked radio system, and they are just a couple of radios you randomly purchased, then there's a number of steps you'll need to take:

1. You'll need a license from the country you live in.
2. That license will need to grant you permission to use specific frequencies that those radios will work on. (There are rarely "free" frequencies, no matter what someone on the internet tells you).
3. The radios will need to be programmed correctly to use the frequencies you are licensed for.
4. If you just want radio ID's to show when the radios transmit, you don't need a trunking system to do that. Just set the radios to use MDC1200 ID's. You'll need to set up the MDC1200 system in each radio. Each conventional personality will need to be set to use that system. You'll need to have the radio set to show MDC1200 ID's on the display (if the flashcode allows that).

 

[cjradloff76]

Ok everyone thank you for your responses. I'll check out mdc1200

 

[Ubbe]

My radios go beep when trying to transmit in smartzone only conventional work's

You'll need a system with a basestation to get them to work in smartzone trunking mode, or you will get that error tone. MDC1200 are a good suggestion but if they where used in a smartzone system they probably didn't pay extra for that feature in the radios as it would be a waste of money.

/Ubbe

 

[socalradioguy]

You'll need a system with a basestation to get them to work in smartzone trunking mode, or you will get that error tone. MDC1200 are a good suggestion but if they where used in a smartzone system they probably didn't pay extra for that feature in the radios as it would be a waste of money.

/Ubbe

I highly doubt this is accurate as I've not seen a single XTS 3k or 5k that didn't have MDC1200 support. Come to think of it, I can't even recall having seen a flashcode option for adding MDC1200 to a Cosmo series radio. Jedi maybe, but definitely not Cosmo.

Regardless, I think we've established the OP's best course of action would be to find a Motorola dealer who is able to reprogram the radios to work the way they need. Going this route should have the added benefit of ensuring proper licensing as I don't know of any shops that'll program radios without first ensuring the foregoing.

edit: forgot to mention that, depending on the options in the radio flashcodes, OP may also be able to use P25 which has unit ID baked in. This is, again, dependent on proper licensing as the emission designators have to match the way the equipment is programmed.

srg

 

[Ubbe]

My countrys FCC authority used to have regulations that a radio must not be programmed with a transmit frequency if there where no proper license presented, and truckers and taxi drivers came into the shop with all the right papers from our FCC. But for some reason 20 years ago the regulations where changed so that anyone could have any transmit frequency programmed but the user where instead forbidden to transmit without having a license.

I only worked with Jedis and never with XTS, so I didn't know about the "free" MDC1200.

/Ubbe

 

[ElroyJetson]

Even if the law was changed so that it's not illegal to transmit on any frequency (which I highly doubt, that's literally insane), the operator of the trunked system is very likely to inhibit your radios if they ever actually do appear on his system without authorization.


You must be an authorized system user. And you are not the person who will be authorized to do the programming of the radios on that system.

 

[socalradioguy]

Even if the law was changed so that it's not illegal to transmit on any frequency...

This is not what he said. Read it again:

...a radio must not be programmed with a transmit frequency if there where no proper license presented...

As far as I know, this is still accurate in that any radio user licensed under Part 90 is able to have the transmit frequencies of other users licensed under the same for the purpose of interoperability. Note that authorization to have transmit frequencies programmed and authorization to actually transmit on them is NOT the same thing. For more info, see § 90.427 of The Commission's Rules.

srg

 

[ElroyJetson]

What I said did not contradict the previous statement. My statement was a hypothetical step beyond it. It doesn't change its validity.

So, in theory, since the software requires the entry of TX frequencies for trunking, by doing so, even if you never transmit, it violates that FCC rule if you're not authorized. Yeah, actually that's pretty well understood. But has that particular scenario ever played out in an FCC enforcement case? I do not know.

 

[N4DES]

What I said did not contradict the previous statement. My statement was a hypothetical step beyond it. It doesn't change its validity.

So, in theory, since the software requires the entry of TX frequencies for trunking, by doing so, even if you never transmit, it violates that FCC rule if you're not authorized. Yeah, actually that's pretty well understood. But has that particular scenario ever played out in an FCC enforcement case? I do not know.

Yes they have used this part of the Rule on numerous occasions for improper programming.

Federal Register :: Request Access

1.903 Authorization required.​

(a) General rule. Stations in the Wireless Radio Services must be used and operated only in accordance with the rules applicable to their particular service as set forth in this title and with a valid authorization granted by the Commission under the provisions of this part, except as specified in paragraph (b) of this section.
(b) Restrictions. The holding of an authorization does not create any rights beyond the terms, conditions and period specified in the authorization. Authorizations may be granted upon proper application, provided that the Commission finds that the applicant is qualified in regard to citizenship, character, financial, technical and other criteria, and that the public interest, convenience and necessity will be served. See §§ 301, 308, and 309, 310 of this chapter.

 

[nhfdcadet]

wait, are you trying to program them on a trunked system without actually having a trunked system?

 

[DeoVindice]

wait, are you trying to program them on a trunked system without actually having a trunked system?

That is certainly my understanding of the situation.

 

[nhfdcadet]

That is certainly my understanding of the situation.

I guess this is what happens when anyone and their brother can get their hands on an ebay cable and pirated copy of CPS. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP doesn't even have a licensed frequency at all.

 

[socalradioguy]

I guess this is what happens when anyone and their brother can get their hands on an ebay cable and pirated copy of CPS. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP doesn't even have a licensed frequency at all.

I don't think the OP has the cable, much less CPS. I suspect that some municipally-employed tightwad somewhere was tasked with surplussing a bunch of deprecated radio equipment and, rather than hire someone to wipe the equipment in question, just put it to auction. Whether the direct purchaser of said equipment or a second/third-hand purchaser, the OP somehow ended up with the stuff and is attempting to use the existing programming, some of which includes trunked channels. Of course I'm speculating wildly, but this seems like a more plausible explanation than the OP got ahold of some radios, then bought a cheap programming cable, then obtained a pirated copy of CPS, then decided to dump a bunch of trunking systems + personalities into the codeplug in addition to whatever conventional stuff they were already adding...

srg