Smartzone Site number limit ?

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

The limit for Smartzone, according to info here on RR, is 48 sites. I actually logged site numbers over 48 when listening to the HydroQuebec system using Trunker. Is it possible that Motorola increased the smartzone site limit in later controllers?

HydroQuebec uses P25 so perhaps the limit was expanded on ASTRO IMBE systems?

A limit over 48 may explain why there is a site 4 reported in the Montreal Area and a site 4 reported in the Pembroke, Ont area. Trunker could be doing a modulus 64 on the site number and the Montreal area site could be site 68!

73 Eric

 

[SCPD]

I *think* I've seen site numbers in the 50s so 1-64 might be a valid range now-a-days. The newest equipment is all linked together using IP so a limit of 48 is likely a constraint from older equipment.

-rick

 

[mikewazowski]

My somewhat dated info shows that Smartzone is limited to 48 sites but you can use site numbers up to 64.

 

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

Okay, mystery solved. There is only one site 4! The one in Pembroke is another site number.

Thanks for your comments. This has answered some questions and I will not doubt any site numbers from 49 to 64 displayed by Trunker.

73 Eric

 

[OntarioScannerNut]

If that's the case, then what about Site 001 that's listed for Bryson. Looking at a map, Bryson, Que. is not that far away from Pembroke, probably within a half hour drive or so.

If they're that close together wouldn't the site numbers be close together as well?

Hello,

Okay, mystery solved. There is only one site 4! The one in Pembroke is another site number.

Thanks for your comments. This has answered some questions and I will not doubt any site numbers from 49 to 64 displayed by Trunker.

73 Eric

 

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

Site numbers only have to be unique. I have seen systems that do not have a pattern to the site numbers based on location. Also the local smartzone system has gaps in the site numbers.

The Fleetnet system in Ontario is divided into regions but I do not see a pattern to the site numbers. If there was a pattern then Toronto would not be site 40 when Owen Sound is 29 and Mississauga is 9.

73 Eric

 

[DaveH]

My somewhat dated info shows that Smartzone is limited to 48 sites but you can use site numbers up to 64.

Does it say anything about a restriction on using 1 as a site number...could it be reserved, for some special purpose? Ontario Zone 1 and 2 and H-Q do not have a Site 1.

Dave

 

[DaveH]

Now for a different sort of question.

I've noticed in (IC) TAFL recent new assignments for Quebec (gov't)
with emission F9DCN (digital voice), 12.5kHz BW, in the VHF band.
There are over 50 pairs in three "ranges", plus a fourth (get to
that one later). My guess is that these are future assignments
for the Quebec province-wide Astro system which was announced
some time ago in a Moto press release.

I mapped out the output and input ranges (exact numbers I
don't have with me, but roughly):

140-141MHz outputs, 148-150MHz inputs
152-154.5MHz outputs, 157.5-160MHz inputs
162-166MHz outputs, 167-171MHz inputs

Taking 15kHz steps, the number of output channels exceeds 380,
as do inputs. There is another "range" with inputs 138-140MHz and
140-142MHz outputs with F9DFN coding. This doesn't seem to fit
the rules for SmartZone systems, at least the 3600bps CC variety.

Is it possible, if this is to be a pure 9.6k system, that the
3-range, 380-channel restrictions don't apply?

If anyone wants to poke at this, try searching callsigns CZU870
through CZU889 for starts.

There are also new assignments in the 460-462 range for Que.
Gov't services with F1DFN emission, which is data (FSK), not
narrowband. I have heard some analog voice activity on at least one
frequency (sounds like a gov't service in french). This may or may
not be connected to the VHF assignments. Try callsigns CIH211 and
up.

Dave

 

[WayneH]

There's no restriction to site numbering or site number assignment. Since Motorola configures the first phase of the network at their staging center they keep to common logic and simplicity so things are numbered proper. But as it's been said the max number is 64. This is designated by the OSW which announces the site number. OmniLink says it can do more sites and that's through multiple Zone Controllers with their sites. So you can have identical site numbers but they'll fall under a different zone (the zone being indicated by sysid). Also, the number of physical sites is limited by consoles and other hardware. They take up a port on the rear of the ZC. Theoretically you could have 64 sites but it would be a network without consoles, or data loggers, or digital, etc. The reality is not seeing 60 sites because of that.

-Wayne

 

[EricCottrell]

My somewhat dated info shows that Smartzone is limited to 48 sites but you can use site numbers up to 64.

Does it say anything about a restriction on using 1 as a site number...could it be reserved, for some special purpose? Ontario Zone 1 and 2 and H-Q do not have a Site 1.

Dave

I would not be surprised if Zone 1 is a low power site for testing radios at the radio shop or a portable backup site.

My state has a Smartzone system that includes simulcast smartzone sites. It was originally a three site Type 1 system for the MDC that got expanded. The original three sites were upgraded and became Site 5. There were still some Type 1 radios so Site 5 was Type IIi and I understood the Type 1 radios only used the original three sites. There were no Sites 1 and 2 active.

When the Ted Williams Tunnel was completed it got Site 2. The other parts of the big dig got sites 21 and 22. It seemed the low power sites get the higher numbers but the Ted Williams Tunnel is an exception.

Recently some frequencies at the three original sites were split off to form Site 1. The result is in Boston Site 1 is used by the Big Dig, MDC, MWRA, etc. Site 5 still uses the three original sites plus other sites in NE MA and is used by the State Police and other agencies. So in Boston there are actually two sites (1 and 5) that cover the city with others (2, 21, 22) for underground coverage.

73 Eric

 

[INDY72]

Motorola Smartzone Systems- Zone limitations are only limited by the amount of hardware, with up to 64 possible Sites/Cells per Zone. Using OmniLink it can get HUGE.

Example:

OmniLink "Megasystem":
Made up of 10 Smartzone Systems:
Each Smartzone made up of 10 Zones:
Each Zone has up to 64 Sites/Cells.....

Siad "Megasystem" could contain up to 6,400 total Sites/Cells.

Correct?

 

[WayneH]

Said "Megasystem" could contain up to 6,400 total Sites/Cells.

Correct?

Negative. OmniLink permits up to three interconnected Zone Controllers so the total maximum number is 192 sites. Remember, up to 64 sites per ZC. But we're talking 4.x here.

I believe Motorola still uses the OmniLink network setup for 9600 systems which I believe have different capacities compared to 4.x.

-Wayne

 

[INDY72]

OK so to do say a four or more state "mega" Omnilinked Smartzone System, yoiu'd need say two, or three "linked" Omnilinks?

This means that the Entergy system is actually several Omnilinks tied in together to have the coverage and number of sites/cells they have.

This would aslo make most statewide ASTRO, and ASTRO-25 systems actually Omnilink ASTRO's?

<--- Got all the basics, now trying to understand just how you set up huge systems.

 

[WayneH]

There's really nothing physically to "OmniLink" it's primarily software. It allows the interfacing of Zone Controllers so they can interact with each other. As mentioned, only three can be. You can't link OmniLink networks. That's redundant.

With fully APCO-25 Trunked systems there are different limitations but those are spec'd by the standard. Motorola has simply adapted what it currently has so it's common to hear SmartZone or OmniLink when involved with 9600 networks. The limitation of three linked ZCs is a 3600 thing only.

-Wayne