Smartzone's Northern Range?

[Chaos703]

As I was following the recent 3hr chase that started @ 91 & Yale and ended just shy of Kansas on US75, I noticed that the TPD units started having comm problems between Romona and Bartlesville while OHP units had contact throughout. As I understand it, both departments used the same system. So how is it possible that OHP did better than TPD? Do OHP units have some kind of signal boosters? Does such a thing exist?[/code]

 

[K5MAR]

Is it possible that the OHP units are using higher-power radios? I don't know, just a guess.

Mark S.

 

[okla-lawman]

There are many repeaters in the state system. Not all agencies radios are programmed with every repeater, or for that matter every divisions
radios. That is why you could here ohp and not TPD's traffic.

 

[Chaos703]

That would make sense to me if OHP was on their low band network. But they were on the 800 side—Tulsa's SmartZone system. I thought (maybe I'm wrong) that the top of the Williams tower is the northern most repeater site for that system. Does OHP have another 800 station north of Tulsa? And if so, does anyone know where?

More powerful radios with more sensitive antennas seem to make sense, too.

 

[crayon]

Does OHP have another 800 station north of Tulsa? And if so, does anyone know where?

No they do not. I really do not think that more powerful 800 MHz radios were the reason.

Could it be a patch from lowband over to the 800 system that provided coverage?

 

[Chaos703]

Good thought. But I was definatly monitoring the Troop B talkgroup.

I just can't believe they still had clear hit on the control channel six miles south of Kansas. Was I the only one who heard that pursuit?

 

[Chaos703]

Sorry Crayon, I just re-read your post. I initially read it backward. You're suggesting a patch FROM low band TO 800.

Interesting thought. Seems unlikely because I'm not sure why they would need to patch. Everyone involved would be able to hear each other on low band. Also, earlier in the pursuit the OHP supervisor had a rather entertaining tiff with a TPD captain which resulted in the supervisor turning down dispatch's request to switch to an RMA channel.

 

[rush2112ok]

The chase was really amusing to listen to. I was quite surprised that OHP did want to patch with Tulsa PD.

I over heard traffic on OHP Turner 1 by OHP Tulsa they gave an FYI about the chase. And that TPD did not request assistance at that time. After about the first or second loop between Owasso and Oologah. TPD was then requesting OHP. It took sometime for OHP to meet up with the suspect vehicle the first time (in Owasso). Then there was the confusion that the suspect was armed and OHP pulled back. Finally they join up again around Oologah.

Other Agency I heard were OHP Troup L (L 808) Roger Co SO, Washington Co SO, Owasso PD, Bartlesville PD. I would also image Dewey and Copan PD. But, I could not pick up there traffic from the house.

 

[Chaos703]

I don't think concerns that the suspect could be armed was the real reason OHP originally dropped out. At one point (first loop between Owasso and Oologah, I think) I guess the TPD Capt. thought OHP was being too aggressive so he got on OHP's channel and yelled something like "OHP! BACK OFF!!!" Right after that, the OHP Super ordered his men out. There was some confused chatter as TPD units started asking each other why OHP was dropping out. TPD dispatch called OHP and was told that they were "dropping out at TPD's request." Then the TPD Capt. had to track down the OHP Super's 10-21. I guess they got things straight because a few minutes later the order came for "OHP units, head north" and they were back in it.

Shortly after that is when the OHP Super denied the patch request.

I think the OHP Super just didn't appreciate a TPD Capt. getting on their channel and barking orders at his men. So instead of having his men back off, he just told them to drop out until someone apologized.

Am I making it too much of a soap opera, or do you think I read it straight?

 

[foster_006]

Sounds like a fun night up the Turner! Too bad us in OKC couldn't hear! :!:

 

[K5MAR]

I don't think concerns that the suspect could be armed was the real reason OHP originally dropped out. At one point (first loop between Owasso and Oologah, I think) I guess the TPD Capt. thought OHP was being too aggressive so he got on OHP's channel and yelled something like "OHP! BACK OFF!!!" Right after that, the OHP Super ordered his men out. There was some confused chatter as TPD units started asking each other why OHP was dropping out. TPD dispatch called OHP and was told that they were "dropping out at TPD's request." Then the TPD Capt. had to track down the OHP Super's 10-21. I guess they got things straight because a few minutes later the order came for "OHP units, head north" and they were back in it.

Shortly after that is when the OHP Super denied the patch request.

I think the OHP Super just didn't appreciate a TPD Capt. getting on their channel and barking orders at his men. So instead of having his men back off, he just told them to drop out until someone apologized.

Am I making it too much of a soap opera, or do you think I read it straight?

Wish I could have heard the action, sounds like a good one! If indeed the OHP supervisor did what he did for the reason's you suspect, I say more power to him! If they were outside TPD's jurisdiction, then the TPD Capt. had no authority to order the OHP units around. In fact, the OHP could have taken over as primary, and TPD would have dropped back and followed along behind. I know, hot pursuit and all that, but at some point the whole thing would become a state case instead of a local one, which puts the state agency (in this case the OHP) in charge. If the chase had gone south instead of north, would the TPD captain have tried to order the OKCPD or Troop A around? That I'd like to hear!

I've noticed for years a tendancy for the Tulsa PD (brass) to act as if they were on an equal level with Troop B and above all the other area agencies, an attitude, really. Another one of those "whose badge is more righteous" things. They're the big frog in the Northeast Oklahoma pond, and think they're the big dogs in the neighborhood.

Mark S.

 

[okla-lawman]

While I agree with what k5mar said about attitudes it was TPD's pursuit, not ohp. Ohp has some officers that have a problem understanding that.
Under federal law once a unit acticvates it emergency equipment he may
continue his pursuit anywhere in the United States (except the District of Columbia where it is specifially prohibited by Federal law). Under the law the officer may cross state lines etc. In this pursuit TPD is legally responsible for ALL agencies involved as technically they are assisting under their color of law, Ineragency agreements not wihstanding.
I was not there and I am willing to bet no one else here was either so it is
all monday morning quaterbacking. BUT tpd and ohp train differently. Ohp uses the pitt manuver....etc. Tpd doesnt even have stop sticks except
for supervisors. I have been in these inneragency pursuits and coordination is essential. They should not look like a race with units passing each other. OHP is usually very helpful and they have many good troops. It may have been nothing more than a communications problem. I know in pursuits when trying to patch you sometime "loose some of the
units" and it becomes an officer safety issue. That is why you will often wait to here them go to a tactical channel as they want to wait for officer safety.[/list]

 

[K5MAR]

Can't argue with that. You're in a better position to know what the current rules are. My post was based on observations in my locale, plus experience from 25 years ago. If the procedures hadn't changed in that time, I would have been surprised. In the old days, past a certain point, our local officers would yield to the agency that had jursidiction in that area. And in some cases recently, SPD has yielded to the county or OHP units simply because their radios couldn't maintain contact!

I am surprised that TPD doesn't have what I would consider elementary items for pursuit, like stop sticks or training in the PIT maneuver. Even Perkins PD has stop sticks, and a majority of the area officers are trained in the PIT maneuver.

You are absolutely correct about coordination. The unfortunate part is that while many agencies pay lip service to it, in reality, in the field it just doesn't happen. That was the nice thing about when I worked at SPD, everybody in this area was on 155.490 MHz and almost everybody had 100 watt mobiles, so everybody could talk to and hear everybody else. (Of course, it DID get congested at times!) So at 3 AM, when the Cushing dispatcher had to 10-99, he'd sign off the air and I'd acknowledge. That way, the Cushing officers knew they were a radio transmission away from help if needed, that somebody was listening for them, just in case. And visa-versa, of course. A pursuit could go the length and breadth of Payne County with everybody in constant contact with everybody else.

Mark S.