SNF Fire above Shaver Lake

[Paysonscanner]

One of the indicators of increasing fire intensity seems to be the number of dangerous evacuations being reported. Law enforcement and fire agencies work very hard to anticipate any needed evacuations well ahead of time. Fires seem to be outstripping the resources and the timing of these evacuations. The evacuations on this fire at China Peak, an area Hubby and I skied at frequently, using National Guard Chinooks, is an indicator of this. The situation and horrible fatalities at Paradise were occurring just as I moved from California nearly two years ago is another example.

 

[norcalscan]

Here's latest commo...

As mentioned above
Air Tactics FM 171.1125
Air/Ground Tac 166.6125
Air/Ground CMD 167.0625
Rotor Vic 119.075

Ground Tacs NIFC T1, T3, T5, T6, T7, CDF Tac 24, 25, 26, 27, 163.100 (deck likely), 168.050,

Additionally ordered up the following, possibly for future operational periods or potential growth
A/G 169.2875 and 168.400,
Air Tactics FM 172.1375
Victors 134.425, 132.525

 

[vlarian]

Here's latest commo...

As mentioned above
Air Tactics FM 171.1125
Air/Ground Tac 166.6125
Air/Ground CMD 167.0625
Rotor Vic 119.075

Ground Tacs NIFC T1, T3, T5, T6, T7, CDF Tac 24, 25, 26, 27, 163.100 (deck likely), 168.050,

Additionally ordered up the following, possibly for future operational periods or potential growth
A/G 169.2875 and 168.400,
Air Tactics FM 172.1375
Victors 134.425, 132.525

163.1000 is the deck at the marine base at the Fresno Airport, the Tanker base has gained permission to use the vacant Marine base as a temporary helibase.

 

[PluckyPleco]

Reports that they've moved command off of SNF to two different channels: North and South.

 

[norcalscan]

9/11 Commo update
A/G CMD North 168.3375
A/G Tac North 169.2875
Rotor Vic North 134.425

A/G CMD South 167.0625
A/G Tac South 166.6125
Rotor Vic South 132.525

Air Tactics FM 171.1125
Air Briefing FM 172.1375
TFR Vic 119.075
TOLC 119.725

South Zone
NIFC CMD5 169.750 Musick Mtn
NIFC CMD46 172.0875 Fence Meadow
NIFC CMD64 172.100 Black Mtn

North Zone
NIFC CMD50 170.7625 Goat Mtn
NIFC CMD65 172.250 Iron Mtn

Morning Briefing South Zone CDF Tac 24 (0700)

 

[zerg901]

re Post 45 - I will guess that -

A/G Cmd is used for the aerial commander to speak to the Incident Command Post

A/G Tac is used for 1 aircraft to speak to 1 ground unit about specific details of 1 mission or drop

Air Tactics is used for air tankers to get specific directions on where to drop from a lead plane

Air Briefing is used to give info to aircraft who are approaching the scene for the first time or after reloading perhaps

The NIFC Command Repeaters are used by the Incident Command Post to talk to Division Leaders - and for emergencies (entrapment - injuries - etc)

The NIFC Command repeaters might share common input channels

-------------

How does a ground unit talk to a helicopter? I guess that would be on A/G Tac - which means that the helos are required to have AM radios and FM radios

 

[norcalscan]

re Post 45 - I will guess that -

You have the general idea.
A/G Cmd is for coordination between overhead administration (Division Supervisors, Branch Directors and Ops Chiefs) and aircraft
A/G Tac is for coordination between aircraft and the firefighting resources on the ground. If there are active drops on a Division, every firefighter on that division will be monitoring A/G to make sure they don't get dropped on, or tell the aircraft if the drop was off target. Sometimes both command and tac fit on one frequency. For large incidents, they separate the two.
Air Tactics is fixed wing operations
Air Briefing is used typically for briefing incoming relief air attack or other overhead coordination. It's usually an AM freq (smaller incidents just use 122.925 or a quick adhoc vic freq they decide over the air, larger incidents have a dedicated brief), but 2020 I've seen a few FM freqs for this and I think that's to be an alternate coordation freq for non-firefighting support aircraft, ATGS and Lead, and could even have IR ships, drones, etc.

NIFC Command repeaters are for all command and operational coordination on an incident. They are portable VHF repeaters that are all linked together by UHF links. Every repeater is a unique pair, there is no common input freq. With the link, you pick one repeater, they all come up.

Helicopters are required to have 2 FM P25 capable radios on board, one of which must have a dedicated Guard that can be activated at the flick of a single switch, and 2 AM radios on board. Normal incidents they'll just have Air Ground, and Rotor Vic. Bigger incidents they'll have A/G, A/G Cmd on the FM's, Rotor Vic, and TOLC (take off landing coordination) on the AM's. When off the fire A/G gets switched to Deck.

 

[es93546]

How does a ground unit talk to a helicopter? I guess that would be on A/G Tac - which means that the helos are required to have AM radios and FM radios

All firefighting aircraft have to have both AM and FM radios.

 

[es93546]

9/11 Commo update
A/G CMD North 168.3375
A/G Tac North 169.2875
Rotor Vic North 134.425

A/G CMD South 167.0625
A/G Tac South 166.6125
Rotor Vic South 132.525

Air Tactics FM 171.1125
Air Briefing FM 172.1375
TFR Vic 119.075
TOLC 119.725

South Zone
NIFC CMD5 169.750 Musick Mtn
NIFC CMD46 172.0875 Fence Meadow
NIFC CMD64 172.100 Black Mtn

North Zone
NIFC CMD50 170.7625 Goat Mtn
NIFC CMD65 172.250 Iron Mtn

Morning Briefing South Zone CDF Tac 24 (0700)

I'm going to try the Iron Mtn. repeaters from Mammoth Lakes in the a.m. I should be able to pick it up and it is likely multicast with Goat Mtn. I wouldn't guess it is multicast with the south zone, but will find out. My antenna system is pretty lousy right now. I have 13 year old LMR-400 to a roof top discone. I'm trying to replace the coax and put up two 2m/70cm antennas up there, but after a bad fall off a ladder 5 years ago, my wife is quite adamant about me not going up on the roof. The discone has a couple of elements that came off in a winter storm a couple of years ago as well. I figure since nearly everything up here is VHF High the 2m antennas will work better than the discone. I'm hoping to pickup the SNF repeater on Shuteye Peak again. Iron Mtn. is right on the boundary of the Inyo and Sierra so I have a shot at it. People all over town are not panicked, however, they half expect this fire to burn all the way over to town here.

 

[es93546]

On Friday afternoon I heard radio traffic on the Inyo NF north net about a command repeater for the Creek Fire about to be installed on Mammoth Mtn. I had my base scanner on my federal large fire list since then. I've heard nothing and I've not heard anything on the Iron Mtn. command repeater frequency someone passed along here, which surprised me. I've had my handheld on a VHF High sweep also. Command repeaters don't follow the normal rules if not on the listed NIFC system frequencies. Outputs on 163 MHz and inputs on 173 MHz have been noted by other members. That is why I decided to use a sweep, rather than a limit search, which might be so slow on a 11-12 MHz search that I miss the traffic. Has anyone heard of changes to the Creek Fire's comm plan made since Friday or first thing on day shift Saturday? This is a fire I don't have access to the ICS205 of. I have access to the South Zone Creek Fire IAP ICS205 for 9/18. but the repeater would not be listed until 9/19 or 9/20 if the same command net is shown for both zones on it. Nope, I just checked and it looks like the command net shown shows all south Sierra NF repeater locations, nothing up north like Shuteye Peak or similar and not Iron Mtn. as previously mentioned.

I have a source on a western Sierra Nevada Forest, but he works in dispatch and air attack and I don't want to bother him with the question during the middle of this incredible fire season.

 

[norcalscan]

Here's the updates you're looking for.

A/G CMD North 165.4375 (changed since my last update)

North Zone - NIFC CMD 80 169.9625 (addition, location Mammoth Ski Resort)
South Zone - NIFC CMD 32 171.0875 (addition, location White Bark)

All other commands and air for both zones the same.

 

[clovisb31]

I notice you are referring to the latest assigned frequencies as CMD 80 and CMD 32.
The RR database for the NIFC channels only lists up to TAC 12 and CMD 12. Any way of listing or posting the channels/frequencies above TAC 12 and CMD 12? Maybe update the database? Are there other known links to frequency lists that show these frequencies not listed in the database?
Obviously they are known based on the above posts.
Looks like this fire will burn all winter until extinguished by rain/snow or it reaches the other side of the Sierras (Mammoth) . Should be a great
opportunity to identify and update the NIFC list.
Thanks to all for your informative posts.

 

[ecps92]

Many of those CMD Channels get re-assigned Annually or are created for the large events and then recycled back to never appear.

There were some folks who attempted to keep the WIKI updated with them as they got found, but to add some of the "One Time" CMD to the RRDB would be pointless.

I notice you are referring to the latest assigned frequencies as CMD 80 and CMD 32.
The RR database for the NIFC channels only lists up to TAC 12 and CMD 12. Any way of listing or posting the channels/frequencies above TAC 12 and CMD 12? Maybe update the database? Are there other known links to frequency lists that show these frequencies not listed in the database?
Obviously they are known based on the above posts.
Looks like this fire will burn all winter until extinguished by rain/snow or it reaches the other side of the Sierras (Mammoth) . Should be a great
opportunity to identify and update the NIFC list.
Thanks to all for your informative posts.

 

[es93546]

Many of those CMD Channels get re-assigned Annually or are created for the large events and then recycled back to never appear.

There were some folks who attempted to keep the WIKI updated with them as they got found, but to add some of the "One Time" CMD to the RRDB would be pointless.

I'm nearly done gathering the information to update the Wiki's list of these commands. It's a great year to do so as so many have been used. Even though many disappear to not be used again, it does give us some frequencies to try when large incidents occur in subsequent years. I've noticed that some will pop up in the same areas a few years later. I don't know how long it will take me to update the Wiki, I'm moving pretty slow anymore.

 

[es93546]

I'm nearly done gathering the information to update the Wiki's list of these commands. It's a great year to do so as so many have been used. Even though many disappear to not be used again, it does give us some frequencies to try when large incidents occur in subsequent years. I've noticed that some will pop up in the same areas a few years later. I don't know how long it will take me to update the Wiki, I'm moving pretty slow anymore.

I need to update the Region 5 Forest Service wiki pages as well. I wrote them so it's really up to me to update them. The NIFC radio system Wiki needs work as well. It's going to be in the winter before I have time. I've got a lot of "getting ready for winter" work in the meantime. We have three seasons in Mammoth, getting ready for winter, winter and cleaning up from winter. Winters have been getting shorter and warmer, so it's not as bad as it used to be.

 

[ecps92]

Remember the Wiki is team work, any member can edit and help, sadly some just want to post

BTW, if you have updates you want a hand with PM me

I need to update the Region 5 Forest Service wiki pages as well. I wrote them so it's really up to me to update them. The NIFC radio system Wiki needs work as well. It's going to be in the winter before I have time. I've got a lot of "getting ready for winter" work in the meantime. We have three seasons in Mammoth, getting ready for winter, winter and cleaning up from winter. Winters have been getting shorter and warmer, so it's not as bad as it used to be.

 

[norcalscan]

es93546, here are my moderate effort notes, with green being 2020 intel. Not a comprehensive list, but something to help compare with your notes. I do not have the time at the moment to edit the wiki.

 

[norcalscan]

Air/Ground extended 2019 blue and 2020 mauve



Air Tactics FM - extended, 2019 blue 2020 mauve

 

[Progline]

I'm going to try the Iron Mtn. repeaters from Mammoth Lakes in the a.m. I should be able to pick it up and it is likely multicast with Goat Mtn. I wouldn't guess it is multicast with the south zone, but will find out. My antenna system is pretty lousy right now. I have 13 year old LMR-400 to a roof top discone. I'm trying to replace the coax and put up two 2m/70cm antennas up there, but after a bad fall off a ladder 5 years ago, my wife is quite adamant about me not going up on the roof. The discone has a couple of elements that came off in a winter storm a couple of years ago as well. I figure since nearly everything up here is VHF High the 2m antennas will work better than the discone. I'm hoping to pickup the SNF repeater on Shuteye Peak again. Iron Mtn. is right on the boundary of the Inyo and Sierra so I have a shot at it. People all over town are not panicked, however, they half expect this fire to burn all the way over to town here.

I think you will be well-pleased with a dual-band VHF Omni antenna. Either the Comet or Diamond one-piece fiberglass covered will work fine, even though cut for the ham bands. (note - you can request some of the Comets to be cut in the commercial bands - you have to deal with the Comet distriubtor for info on it). Even the smaller Comet C-150BX-H works well, and has given years of faithful service for our local ham club on a hilltop. 13-year old LMR400 should be OK, as long as it has had no water instrusion from the connectors.